When you knocked down and already got persistent damage (lets say bleeding 2) is it nonsene to throw the save dice, because if you succed the DC and got 1 Hitpoint back, at the end of the round you got the bleeding damage. The rules on p. 295 say:
If you take damage while you’re already unconscious, apply the same effects as if you had been knocked out by
that damage.
This means you go to 0 Hitpoint and get one additional dying point. Thats the same result as if you failed the save throw. (Ok, its better than a critical failure, so it is not totaly nonsense to throw).
What also can change is the DC (only can get harder):
If the recovery save DC for the new damage
is higher than your current recovery save DC, start using
the higher DC.
So I have to remember who did the persistent damage (maybe rounds before) to find out if the DC is now maybe harder?
My first thought is that the flat check (15 or 20) should be the death DC for persistent damage.
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I need help with persistent damage. Per the rules on page 323, a flat check DC 20 is required to remove the damage, and when you do, you only remove one effect. This means bleed 2 requires you to be healed to full hit points, or you need to make two 20 rolls. If you use an action, you make that a dc 15. This means that without using an action, you will have a 1 in 20 chance of removing bleed 1. Since this is a flat check, nothing can modify it. Which means at level 12, you still only have a 1 in 20 chance of making the save to remove bleed 1. Monsters at level 12 can give bleed 5. Which means you need to make 5 of these improbable saves. Even at 1 in 4, if you do an action, you still have a 1 in 800 chance of doing it in 5 saves. Either the whole party will be using all their skills to remove the damage, or most characters are going to bleed out.
Or am I missing something?
Where does it say that making the save only removes 1 point of the persistent damage? I'm pretty sure it removes the entire effect. And "bleed 5" is one effect, not five.
^^^ What he said.
Related question: so if you have bleed 1 while at dying 1, when your turn comes up you are to make a Recovery Save AND a persistent damage save? So your dying value increases by 2 per turn now?
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Flat DC 20 is too difficult for what persistent damage does. Even 15 is something you're going to fail 70% of the time you roll it.
Either it needs a rounds duration limit, or something you can do to more effectively end it. It's kind of silly right now that rolling badly can cause you to bleed out from a relatively minor injury even if you have someone with Medicine there trying to help you.
I'd change it so that if a Medicine check succeeds, it immediately drops the effect down (ie: bleed 2 becomes bleed 1). So while it will take a while to treat someone who has severe bleeding issues (bleed 5), a sufficiently skilled medic could do it in 5 rounds with a reasonably lower chance of failure.
That also helps buff Medicine, which frankly could use it.