Happy with rituals

[Elleth]

While I still have to read the last hundred or so pages of the book, of everything I've seen I have to say that the rituals section is one of my favourite inclusions. Some things in particular stand out:

They almost all tell a mini story. In particular I quite like that geas requires someone on hand to write and read out the contract, while atone requires someone penitent to demonstrate over the course of a day their understanding of scripture -the crit failure getting it so horribly wrong or losing their cool that they get excommunicated.

The crit failure chance adds an element of risk to big fancy magic, in some cases beyond even normal magic (planar binding, legend lore, and geas in particular are all extremely horrifying). I like this.

Some otherwise potentially setting-wide immersion ruining things have been dialed down -Resurrect is a pretty good example here and some of this is linked to the crit system above. Bringing back the dead is hard, in most cases flawed, and in the worst case scenario can cause a horrible accident.

I suppose my only complaint with the ritual system as far as I can tell is that it would be nice if there were more ways to actually learn rituals.

[Buren van Ulrich]

I agree. I think the ritual system is ripe with storytelling potential. It allows non-caster classes to get involved with some serious capital-M Magic, without stepping on caster's toes like the mini-rituals in 4E did. I would like it if the finalized PF2E book has rules and guidelines for GMs to make rituals of their own.

Elleth wrote:

I suppose my only complaint with the ritual system as far as I can tell is that it would be nice if there were more ways to actually learn rituals.

It seemed to me that the book basically just left it up to the GM, so learning them can be as easy as a Religion Lore check or as hard as being the focus of a campaign.

I also agree with you on the Resurrection thing. I'm considering taking Raise Dead off the spell list and only allowing the Resurrection ritual for bringing back the dead in my own games.

[Xenocrat]

What I like about Resurrection is the scaling difficulty in terms of participants, levels, and rapidly rising costs provides and explanation for why the high level outsiders that get knocked off by adventurers don't just get resurrected the next day. Under PF1 rules there were plenty of good outsiders with True Resurrection available to restore Solars and other high powered allies, and I can't think of a reason why Asmodeus wouldn't encourage his Pit Fiends to engage in mutual Wish insurance pacts so that he doesn't lose such valuable servants.

[Doktor Weasel]

Probably the best ritual is the one Pit Fiends get in the bestiary: Shape Devils. Lets them start with a big pile of Lemures and squish them together like play-dough and make useful devils out of them. Really fits the infernal theme the way it treats souls as a commodity. I just love the flavor of it, even if I'm not sure it'll get much use in play.

[Elleth]

Xenocrat wrote:

What I like about Resurrection is the scaling difficulty in terms of participants, levels, and rapidly rising costs provides and explanation for why the high level outsiders that get knocked off by adventurers don't just get resurrected the next day. Under PF1 rules there were plenty of good outsiders with True Resurrection available to restore Solars and other high powered allies, and I can't think of a reason why Asmodeus wouldn't encourage his Pit Fiends to engage in mutual Wish insurance pacts so that he doesn't lose such valuable servants.

I like the flip side, it also makes it easier for the players to bring back the low level dead NPC they're all in love with.

Doktor Weasel wrote:

Probably the best ritual is the one Pit Fiends get in the bestiary: Shape Devils. Lets them start with a big pile of Lemures and squish them together like play-dough and make useful devils out of them. Really fits the infernal theme the way it treats souls as a commodity. I just love the flavor of it, even if I'm not sure it'll get much use in play.

With some small edits outside of playtesting, you could give access to a similar but necromantic ritual hidden in some tome.

E.g. start with people, zombies, or skeletons and soul/flesh-stitch them together into progressively stronger undead, either using specific undead, or just slightly restatting the devils.

Edit: Arcane/Religion, secondary caster other, other secondary caster medicine?

[Doktor Weasel]

Elleth wrote:

Doktor Weasel wrote:

Probably the best ritual is the one Pit Fiends get in the bestiary: Shape Devils. Lets them start with a big pile of Lemures and squish them together like play-dough and make useful devils out of them. Really fits the infernal theme the way it treats souls as a commodity. I just love the flavor of it, even if I'm not sure it'll get much use in play.

With some small edits outside of playtesting, you could give access to a similar but necromantic ritual hidden in some tome.

E.g. start with people, zombies, or skeletons and soul/flesh-stitch them together into progressively stronger undead, either using specific undead, or just slightly restatting the devils.

Edit: Arcane/Religion, secondary caster other, other secondary caster medicine?

Maybe something similar for Flesh Golem creation. Perhaps golem crafting should all be rituals instead of crafting. I'm not sure, but it's an idea. I think the Animated Item listing in the bestiary implies Animate Item is a ritual now, it's not in the core book though. I suspect creating undead will be similar.