Reflex Saves: Asleep vs. Unconscious


Playing the Game


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If you are asleep, you are also flat-footed and blinded, you get penalties to AC and Perception checks, and you critically fail all Reflex saves you must attempt. That makes sense.

Now if you're unconscious, you're flat-footed and blinded as well, and deafened in addition, and you get the same AC penalty. While it's OK that you do not get the perception penalty, as you will fail any perception check anyway being blind and deaf, but there is no mention of the automatic failure for Reflex saves.

I find that strange, that an unconscious character could possible roll aways from a fireball, while a sleeping character automatically fails critically. Or am I missing something?


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Bumping this because as it was posted way early and went under in the deluge of posts, and because maybe now that Gen Con is over, someone from Paizo might be able to explain.


I agree that this a problem, and I would add Paralyzed as a condition that deserves similar reflex save treatment.

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