Building a true professional Rogue: Need some help

[Erelium]

Hello everyone!

This is my first time creating a Pathfinder character. I am trying to go for a special agent/ mission impossible type guy. One who specializes in a few areas of expertise. The half-elf true professional seemed like an excellent choice.

While my character is very versatile outside of combat

Acrobatics Dex* 10 = + 3 + 1 + 3 [class skill] + 3 [skill focus]
Appraise Int 6 = + 2 + 1 + 3 [class skill]
Bluff Cha 7 = + 3 + 1 + 3 [class skill]
Diplomacy Cha 9 = + 3 + 1 + 3 [class skill] + 2 [half-elf]
Disable Device Dex 7 = + 3 + 1 + 3 [class skill]
Escape Artist Dex* 7 = + 3 + 1 + 3 [class skill]
Linguistics Int 6 = + 2 + 1 + 3 [class skill]
Perception Wis 7 = + 1 + 1 + 3 [class skill] + 2 [half-elf]
Sleight of Hand Dex* 7 = + 3 + 1 + 3 [class skill]
Stealth Dex* 7 = + 3 + 1 + 3 [class skill]
Disguise Dex 7 = + 3 + 1 + 3 [class skill] [expert rogue level 1, exceptionally skilled]
Climb Str 5 = + 1 + 1 + 3 [class skill] [expert rogue level 1, exceptionally skilled]

I was expecting him to not deal the most damage in combat.

I was hoping to be able to make my character useful in combat by going 1 level in fluid monk (gain weapon finesse, improved unarmed for free) and choosing combat expertise from true professional. My aim was:

In combat, I want to create an unarmed fighter that uses dirty tricks and acrobatics interweaved with unarmed attacks to knock his opponents out.

However, I find it difficult to choose from the enormous amount of combat feats available to me. My main problems are:

1) As a true professional, i lose my sneak attack, which is a great modifier for knocking enemies out, especially when combined with high charisma sneak attack enablers and dual wielding fists. I can't imagine how I get the same damage output without sneak attack while keeping the versatility of true professional.

2) I have looked through the fighter combat feats up to level 10, and they seem rather weak as options. Am I missing something here?

So my question is: Is the true professional my best option or am I missing a better one?

[Dave Justus]

True professional is a 3rd party archetype, it looks like you would only gain the exceptionally skilled feature if you are playing with some sort of special rules, probably from that third party book. Otherwise, it trades out sneak attack for feats, which isn't a bad trade honestly.

That said, I doubt your build plan will yield good results. You don't show your stats, but I expect STR is low, so even if you hit someone you aren't going to do any damage, even putting feats into combat it is going to be hard to be competitive. With a 3/4 BAB getting your combat maneuvers to succeed is going to be difficult as well.

I would look at the unchained rogue (probably not with any archetype for your first character, it is a solid rebuild of the rogue class and will yield ok damage) or a bard, perhaps an archaeologist bard if you really want to focus on 'rogue-like.'

In general, your whole concept has a few issues though. I get what you are going for, and while it is something that is pretty cool in movies and books, it is pretty difficult to make it work in a pathfinder game. First off, it is a team game and unless your whole team can 'mission impossible' (unlikely except for very focused campaigns) you really won't get a chance to use most of those abilities. Further, if you try and sneak in or scout to far ahead, eventually you are going to run into something that notices you (either through abilities you can't counter or just good luck) and then you will be all alone, the least combat capable of your party and facing an encounter designed for the whole party. That isn't to say you shouldn't scout, but you shouldn't scout far. It is also really hard to build a 'face' who is also a 'sneak', especially if you want anything left over, remember it being a team game, someone else might be able to take over one of those roles.

Biggest thing is though, I strongly advise anyone to build for combat first, and out of combat utility second. Most of the games I have played, probably 75% of the game time involves combat. You want to enjoy that part of the game and be able to meaningfully contribute to it. In addition, for the most part out of combat activities, while often useful, seldom make huge difference in the course of a game. While diplomacy might help you find a clue, it probably isn't going to solve the problem and in addition enough is usually enough (I'd be perfectly happy if my team had someone with a +5 diplomacy at first level, +9 is more than necessary).

This isn't to say that the idea of 'special agent' isn't very doable and you can't build a fun and workable character around that concept.

[Erelium]

Thanks for the reply! Yea, I was looking at the unchained ninja (Goto) as well. If I can run that with 1 level in monk I think I can make a character that as effective in infiltration and combat.

Thanks for the pointers!

[TheSpaceCowboy]

Erelium wrote:

Thanks for the reply! Yea, I was looking at the unchained ninja (Goto) as well. If I can run that with 1 level in monk I think I can make a character that as effective in infiltration and combat.

Thanks for the pointers!

if you do end up taking some monk levels, it might be interesting to try master of many styles and perhaps the crane or snake styles? They are more defensive/ counter attack focused, might mesh well with the whole mission impossible martial arts expert theme. I remember crane wing and snake fang having fun synergy.

[Slim Jim]

Erelium, let us know what your GM is allowing for sources, type of attribute-generation (die-rolling or point-buy amount), and what sort of campaign it is.

A "True Professional" rogue (Drop Dead Studios) may very will be the smartest person in the magic tea-party room, but he will have very little to do in a fight other than hide. --If the campaign is a hack-n-slash dungeon crawl, you won't be pulling your weight as far as your allies are concerned.

Quote:

This is my first time creating a Pathfinder character.

Avoiding weird third-party archetypes would be my first suggestion. Second suggestion is to play a core rulebook class (you have that part right) with the race best suited for it. E.g., dwarf fighter, halfling rogue, elf wizard, gnome bard, half-orc barbarian, human divine-caster, etc. Those combos are hard to screw up (aside from worthless feat choices and putting bad attribute scores in the class-required spots, but more on that later).

[Ciaran Barnes]

The rogue already has loads of skills and skill points - and even more so with traits and a good Intelligence score. Playing a half elf improves skills too. I don’t see the perks of using this archetype worth giving up sneak attack. You can have sneak attack, and still have the best skill bonuses in your group. Being able to finish off an enemy is part of being a good team player.

[Ciaran Barnes]

Oh, and use the unchained rogue so you get weapon finesse for free.

[Slim Jim]

Ciaran Barnes wrote:

Oh, and use the unchained rogue so you get weapon finesse for free.

And dex-to-damage for free at 3rd.