Can "Cure" Spells Counter "Inflict" Spells?


Rules Questions


In the same way that spells like "Light" counter or dispel "Darkness," it makes sense to me that a Cure Light Wounds spell would be able to counter-spell Inflict Light Wounds.

Is this confirmed or denied anywhere in the rules?
If this is not possible, would anyone perceive unforeseen complications with establishing it as a home-brew ruling?


It's denied in the rules on the fact that it isn't specifically allowed like light and darkness are. That being said I can't see an issue with allowing them to be used this way.


As a general rule, a spell can only counter itself.

So the answer to any such question is "not unless the spell description says so" and in this case the spell description doesn't say so.

That said, I see no problem with house-ruling that a cure will counter an inflict of equal or lower level and vice versa.


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Hmmm... by RAW it is not allowed.
GM caveat should allow it but with conditions; same or greater spell level, cure nnnn vs inflict nnnn, readied action on behalf of the counterspelling caster (or feats), and both casters need to be touching the target or the caster with the spell being counterspelled IF the caster is using a touch spell.... etc
An alternative might be conj(healing) vs hit point damage only necromancy spells... you'd have to verify that.


A lot of what Azothath is saying is already in the rules for counterspell. The one trying to counter would have to have a prepared action to counter spell. Range on cure/inflict spells is generally touch. They would have to be the 'same' version of the spell, it would require a feat to use a greater version of cure/inflict to counter a lower one.

All in all, cure/inflict spells have always been presented as diametrically opposed versions of the other spell. If two clerics wanted to have a staring contest I wouldn't have any issue with using inflict to counter cure. Same for heal/harm. Channel...I wouldn't allow. It isn't a spell and should be treated for what it is. Stuff like Breath of Life isn't exactly a 'cure' spell so you'd need the exact spell or dispel magic to counter it.


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Meirril wrote:
A lot of what Azothath is saying is already in the rules for counterspell. [...] They would have to be the 'same' version of the spell, it would require a feat to use a greater version of cure/inflict to counter a lower one.

The counterspell rules neither say nor imply such a thing. If the OP houserules this at all, it may as well be the "equal or greater level" thing that light and darkness do---no reason to require a feat.


And neither do the rules require you to use the range of the spell. You don't have to touch the same target you are targeting the opponent with your action.


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Talonhawke wrote:
And neither do the rules require you to use the range of the spell. You don't have to touch the same target you are targeting the opponent with your action.

Well, the opponent has to be within range.

How Counterspells Work: To use a counterspell, you must select an opponent as the target of the counterspell. You do this by choosing to ready an action. In doing so, you elect to wait to complete your action until your opponent tries to cast a spell. You may still move at your normal speed, since ready is a standard action.

If the target of your counterspell tries to cast a spell, make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + the spell's level). This check is a free action. If the check succeeds, you correctly identify the opponent's spell and can attempt to counter it. If the check fails, you can't do either of these things.

To complete the action, you must then cast an appropriate spell. As a general rule, a spell can only counter itself. If you are able to cast the same spell and you have it prepared (or have a slot of the appropriate level available), you cast it, creating a counterspell effect. If the target is within range, both spells automatically negate each other with no other results.

So this will work better with a mass cure/inflict.


I like the idea of house-ruling it. Basically, follow all standard rules of counterspell, but you can use an opposing inflict/cure spell of equal or greater power. The requirement to use a higher level spell is only when using the "of the same school" perk of the Improved Counterspell feat. It's a limitation of the feat, so I don't think it applies in this situation.

Azothath wrote:
An alternative might be conj(healing) vs hit point damage only necromancy spells... you'd have to verify that.

Azothath, I'm intrigued. Can you elaborate?


Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
Well, the opponent has to be within range.

Interesting. Does this mean that you could counterspell the opponent's spell by being within touch range of him/her while being outside of touch range of the intended target?

You -> Opponent -> Opponent's Target

From a physical or direction standpoint, your magic wouldn't be "getting in the way" of the opponent's magic (a ranged counterspell could be seen as "intercepting" the opposing spell, but not here.) I guess in this case you're just nullifying the spell at its source before it has a chance to emanate.


Ultrace wrote:
Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
Well, the opponent has to be within range.

Interesting. Does this mean that you could counterspell the opponent's spell by being within touch range of him/her while being outside of touch range of the intended target?

You -> Opponent -> Opponent's Target

From a physical or direction standpoint, your magic wouldn't be "getting in the way" of the opponent's magic (a ranged counterspell could be seen as "intercepting" the opposing spell, but not here.) I guess in this case you're just nullifying the spell at its source before it has a chance to emanate.

Right. It kinda has to be this way, otherwise you'd have to know who was going to cast and what they were going to cast and their target---which they aren't obliged to determine until the very moment of casting. (At least, I think that's the reasoning behind it.)


blog clarifying rules wrote:
"Here's how that particular rule actually works. To counter a spell of the opposing descriptor, you ready an action just like any other counterspell. Just as normal for counterspell, the target of the spell must be within range (which, without Reach Spell metamagic, is touch for most light and darkness spells). "

You need to be within range of the spell you are casting to counterspell.


Correct, range IS the issue AND touch spells can be held indefinately. So there are two targets for a touch spell counterspell, the caster and the touched target depending on when in the undefined sequence in the round the second caster actually gets off the counterspell. It has to be handled in a generic manner that covers both cases as the GM doesn't really care exactly when it happens.
Going into commentary as a home game GM:
I happen to agree that a 4th level cure can counter a first level inflict with a roll, or the same first level inflict automatically. While I was at it the fourth level counterspell should get +3 for the spell level difference (another tweak). As this is now advice rather than RAW i'm stopping here.

These things can get tricky and new rules WILL be tested.

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