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Is there any way to make a non-Class Skill a Class Skill?
The tiny number of Traits listed in the APG and Pathfinder Society Traits lists only have a few that allow a non-Class Skill to become a Class Skill.
Are there any other ways, RAW?
How come Skill Focus doesn't make "that" skill a Class Skill?
I'm trying to make the already-lame-arse Sorcerer a bit better by getting some Knowledge Skills as Class Skills. Cuz, um -- HE'S A SORCERER AND SHOULD HAVE KNOWLEDGE SKILLS. Or at least, my idea of an Arcane caster should.
Outside of multi-classing, nope. Just suck it up and lose the bonus +3 for putting ranks in a class skill and move on. After that initial +3, class skills and non-class skills function exactly the same.
You could also play dwarf, elf, or gnome, and take the "breadth of experience" feat - that'll get you most of the way there.
Is there any way to make a non-Class Skill a Class Skill?
What about the "Hermean Blood" feat from the Inner Sea World Guide? Is that PFS-legal? Or the "Cosmopolitan" feat from the APG?
Hermean Blood
You are the descendant of someone recruited to Hermea or the bastard result of a Hermean’s illicit pairing with someone foreign to that land.
Prerequisites: You may only gain this feat at 1st level.
Benefit: Though you may not know it, the blood of greatness flows in your veins. Pick two skills that share the same associated ability score. Those skills are always considered class skills for you. It’s possible that Hermean agents may come looking for you, either to evaluate you for an invitation or to cover up an embarrassing dalliance, as determined by the GM’s whim.
Cosmopolitan
Living in large, exotic cities has put you in touch with many diverse civilizations, cultures, and races.
Benefit: You can speak and read two additional languages of your choice. In addition, choose two Intelligence-, Wisdom-, or Charisma based skills. Those skills always count as class skills for you.
Sounds like you want to play a wizard.
Sounds like you want to play a wizard.
I have to agree with this, especially since my understanding of a Sorcerer is that they have a innate arcane power as opposed to wizard who had to study and work for their power.
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Yes.
WIZARD.
Yes.
Ages ago, in the earliest time of Man, in the dawn of 3E, and indeed before then, Wizards were acknowledged as the greatest of Lord Gygax's creations. ... But with the Dawn of 3E the God-legends, Monte and Skip, knew that they must create a NEW Class to justify 1/3 of THE BOOK being spells. And thus the crap-ass sorcerer was born.
To be the most crap-ass of Classes ever and for all time.
(Except for the bard which doesn't even count cuz it's so swamp donkey crap ass.)
But when the evil wizard of the coast stole The Mags and killed Lord Gygax's Dungeons and Dragons, and after the wailing and the lamentations of the people who still had a soul, from the ashes arose ! And there was much rejoicing from the people with a soul.
And in its brilliance Paizo improved the Sorcerer so that it would no longer be "as" crap ass.
For now there was a mechanic for Monte and Skip's genius idea of the Bloodline. And it gave the less-and-less crap ass Sorcerer more Spells Known.
And in its Wisdom, Paizo further improved the less-and-less crap ass Sorcerer by making a Human Alternate Racial: Favored Class option whereupon a Sorcerer, no longer crap ass, can get more Spells Known.
And there is even a new Feat, Expanded Arcana, that allows Sorcerers yet another way to get more Spells Known.
And so,
In this New Age,
The people with a soul may look twice at the Sorcerer and even consider it as being "nearly equitable" with the great Wizard.
And there is much rejoicing.
If only the fricking thing had Knowledge Skills as Class Skills.
But I still think I'll stick with Wizard.
How come Skill Focus doesn't make "that" skill a Class Skill?
Well, it does - kinda. A class skill has a +3 bonus. Skill focus grants you a +3 bonus. Sure, you get even more use out of it if you take it for an already-class-skill. But it's still not all that bad.
Other ideas: The additional trait feat can grant you 2 more class skills (which kinda puts it above skillfocus for the first 9 levels, but whatever). Some Bloodlines have knowledge skills as additional class skills (the best being the arcane bloodline, obviously).
So, arcana is already a class skill, 4 more can be aquired by traits (2 start and 2 from the feat) and you can get one more from a bloodline. 6 Knowledge class skills in total doesn't seem too bad. Add Cosmopolitan and/or Breadth of Experiance and you can have more knowledge skills than you have skillpoints. Unless you go with the sage bloodline, which would probably be a good idea.
Or just dip a level in Wizard, I guess... ^^
But I still think I'll stick with Wizard.
That's probably the best idea. The playstyle of the two classes is pretty different. . . .
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Thanks for all the help guys -- hugely appreciated!
How come Skill Focus doesn't make "that" skill a Class Skill?
Well, it does - kinda.
Well, but kinda no, it doesn't.
It's all about maximizing one's character concept. If I'm a Wizard I can get Skill Focus and that +3 STACKS w/ my Class Skill +3. And the Breadth of Knowledge +2 stacks. Etc., etc. ... If I can have both then I demand both -- like I'd make with a Wizard.
If I were to make a Sorcerer I'd want his Knowledge Skills to have the same (or as close as possible) total modifier (which is the biggest number I can reach) as the various Wizards I've made over the years -- or it's NOT worth it (which looks like the case).
I'd rather have maxed Knowledges and lots of Skill points than max Spells; that's my unusual preference.
As a Sorcerer I can't take levels in Loremaster so I'll miss out on 2 Skills/ Lvl there (sucks but can't be helped) and because, as Sorcerer, I'd need a cooler CHA than INT I'll lose a couple points/ Lvl there, too.
I was just hoping I could find a way to build a Sorcerer with great Knowledges but it looks like -- to keep up with the improved Sorcerer -- I'm gonna have to find ways to get more Spell Slots with a Wizard build.
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Of course!
PC's prerogative.
(Actually this won't be for a PC -- I'm back in the DM's chair.)
But even still, I think the difference between the Wizard and the Sorcerer is that Sorcerers are "botom-heavy" casters: more lower level spells without having access to the higher level stuff while Wizards get the higher level stuff early.
I made two spell lists last night, WIZ/ 16 and SOR/ 16, building them with the same character concept in mind and choosing the same spells and Feats and such. The Sorcerer was, as expected, very poor compared to the Wizard at the highest & 2nd highest level spell but had more total spells lower on the list. The Sorcerer didn't look all that bad to play EXCEPT for the skill points.
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Nice.
And I'd have to admit (like I alluded to earlier) I've never played Sorcerer -- and yet, since so many on the Boards love Sorcerers over Wizards (if you've been around long enough you've seen dozens of Threads where the argument rages), I'm sure I'm doing Sorcerer "wrong." Or, more accurately, different because what I want out of the character just may be less-than-optimized.
You win, sir.
@W E Ray:
I've saw a sorcerer played in 3.0 very effectively, and what was humorous was the player was deliberately making "bad" choices for the sake of his character concept. He played a "storm" sorceror (back before bloodlines), forsaking magic missile for shocking grasp, grabbing gaseous form at his earliest opportunity, and playing the heck out of lightning bolt with metamagic at later levels.
He was also helped because alter self (the first second-level spell he picked up) used to have a longer duration and description; he essentially had wings and gills all day long.
Yes, it sucked if he encountered lightning-immune creatures. But gaseous form can be surprisingly useful - it's kinda like fly and passwall rolled into one. And you can pick up another element as you gain higher levels - in PF, don't forget the alternate human trait and the expanded knowledge feats.
I'm not claiming they are better than wizards, though that sorc was better than any wizard I'd seen played in 2e. Have yet to see a PF wizard get too high.
Try to focus on flexible spells, like gaseous form, or baleful polymorph (another spell that got nerfed in PF - used to be 4th level). The sorcerer's ability to cast spells like those, LOTS, can work. A Sorc16 can sit and blast for a long time, and with metamagic can say things like "Save so that you only take 50 damage..." a lot of times a day.
Look into Sage bloodline.
That is, Wildblooded archetype of Arcane bloodline, presented in Ultimagic. You might like that. Sor. Casts Int-based, and I believe gets some Knowledge skill class skills.
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@Kikanaide
Sure, there've been a bajizillion Threads over the years where we've fought on the Boards about who's better. I've always argued that Wizards are better, obviously. It's just that, for this Thread, since it wasn't suppose to be about who's better but instead about how to get Knowledge Skills, I made it a premise that Wizards are better.
.... Regarding Gaseous Form: I used to love this as a 3rd Lvl Spell then, after playing it incorrectly for several years realized just how S L O O O O O O O O W its Movement is.