| RaizielDragon |
Hello all. It’s been a while since I played Pathfinder or participated on these forums, so apologies if I’m rusty.
I’m looking for advice (both flavor and mechanical) on a Paladin build. The concept of the build is a Paladin whose main focus is on the proper care, handling, and disposal (burial, cremation, whatever) of the dead. The main thing I’m interested in is the True Death Inquisition which I believe I can get via the Sacred Servant archetype, which geants the Paladin a domain, which I can use to select an inquisition instead.
Beyond this, I didn’t have too many ideas for the build. I’m torn between a sword/board and 2-hander build, with a leaning toward 2-hander. I’m also interested in fitting in a “gray guard/paladin” aspect as well, though the Gray Paladin archetype is incompatible with the Sacred Servant archetype. So if there is another/better way of getting a domain, I’m open to ideas. I may also look into getting the 3.5 Gray Guard prestige class approved for use.
This build will be used in the Hells Rebels adventure, in case that makes a difference. 20-pt buy most likely. Other players are still developing characters but I believe a Psychic Warrior and a Psychic Detective are in the works.
If any other information would be useful, let me know.
| Claxon |
Are you playing in the Golarion setting?
Because if so that's strongly tied to Pharasma's (deity) domain. Pharasma being True Neutral, doesn't have paladins. However, you could play an Inquisitor, Cleric, or Warpriest of Pharasma instead.
Why do you need to play a paladin instead of playing one of the other classes (including Inquisitor which has Inquisitions) that can represent a holy warrior quite well?
| RaizielDragon |
I’m not sure the setting of Hells Rebels. Is Cheliax in Golarion?
I forgot to mention that Heavy Armor was a preferred aspect as well. Are there other classes that can be a holy warrior in plate mail? I could potentially be ok with Breastplate.
The concept/idea came from a picture I saw. I believe it was in one of the books for an adventure path. It was a picture of a paladin (possibly the Pathfinder paladin; Seelah?) and I beleive she was carrying a casket as a pallbearer. If someone knows the picture and can post a link, please do so.
| Claxon |
I’m not sure the setting of Hells Rebels. Is Cheliax in Golarion?
I forgot to mention that Heavy Armor was a preferred aspect as well. Are there other classes that can be a holy warrior in plate mail? I could potentially be ok with Breastplate.
The concept/idea came from a picture I saw. I believe it was in one of the books for an adventure path. It was a picture of a paladin (possibly the Pathfinder paladin; Seelah?) and I beleive she was carrying a casket as a pallbearer. If someone knows the picture and can post a link, please do so.
Warpriests have heavy armor proficiency from the get go. And can allow you to specialize in the weapon of your deity (even if they're normally crappy) because of Sacred Weapon.
Cheliax is the best part of Golarion. :)
And, since paladins don't necessarily get their power from their gods, there's nothing more stopping a LG paladin from worshiping Pharasma then a LG fighter.
Cheliax is indeed a part of Golarion.
While Pathfinder Paladin's don't have to derive their power from a deity in general, I believe James Jacobs (the Creative Director of Pathfinder's Golarion) has said there are no paladins or clerics in Golarion that derive their powers from ideals. They're all sponsored by a deity.
And since Pharasma is the deity focused on funerals and death, it would make sense to make a character connected to her. Especially since it sounds like the OP can accomplish their character idea without needing to be a paladin.
Edit: Found a quote to back up what I remembered:
There's no rule for this because there shouldn't NEED to be a rule.
Paladins MUST be lawful good.
In order to worship a deity, you need to follow that deity's teachings and philosophies and do things that would make that deity proud.
If you don't worship a lawful good deity, you are increasingly doing things to impress your deity that are at odds with being a paladin.
Once an axis of your alignment drifts more than one step away (law to chaos or good to evil), maintaining a paladin's code and following a deity's philosophy and teachings become pretty much impossible to maintain for long. And without long-term maintenance, that faith simply cannot hold the order together.
To be devout, you need to adhere closely to your deity's alignment. To be a paladin, you need to be lawful good. That pretty much sums it up, as far as I can tell.
On Golarion, the following deities in particular are established in game canon as having paladin orders: Erastil, Iomedae, Torage, Sarenrae, Abadar. I suspect that both Shelyn and Irori have a few paladins worshiping them as well, but they don't have as many as the other five. There are no paladins serving any of the other deities.
| Claxon |
A gray paladin would still worship one of the normal paladin deities, it's just that they've veered some off course but still retained some of their paladin powers. On Golarion (at least in JJ's Golarion), Pharsma doesn't have Paladins, not even Gray Paladins. Which lorewise makes sense, Gray Paladins have found a way to retain a measure of their power despite "losing their way" but they would never have been a paladin of Pharsma in the first place, so they couldn't become a Gray Paladin either. Which is why I suggested Warpriest as an alternate.
However, this all hinges on how much you care about maintaining the setting of "canon" Golarion.
| Dave Justus |
Why is someone who is only interested in burying the dead going to be involved with fomenting rebellion in Cheliax?
To fit in the setting the character you describe would be connected to Pharasma, which means not a Paladin. You certainly can build a heavy armor worshiper of Pharasma, warpriest cleric and inquisitor are all possibilities although the last two would need a feat (or something similar) to be proficient in heavy armor.
The variant multiclassing (cleric) allows you to take a domain while being any class. Depending on what you are looking for from Paladin, this might also give you different options, for example if full BAB is your goal, a Fighter with VMC(cleric) would have a relgious connection and full bab. Although it wouldn't be heavy armor, a ranger with favored enemy: undead and true death inquisition would fit the theme pretty well too.
| RaizielDragon |
I'm not too worried about fitting into the "canon" of Golarion. I'm sure no one I'm playing with is going to be put off by a Paladin that worships Pharasma, and as has been said, there is no restriction (mechanics wise) for a Paladin with respect to deity. I could have no specific deity, and be a paladin of the ideals of proper burial (which would be both lawful and good) while having a healthy respect for Pharasma as well.
That being said, Sacred Servants DO have to follow/support a specific deity, and it specifically has to be a LG, LN, or NG deity. And that's the only way I can find for a Paladin to get a Domain (other than VMC, which I had forgotten about until you brought it up). I would still be ok with being committed to someone like Iomedae or Abadar since they could both potentially care about proper funeral rites, while still having a healthy respect for Pharasma.
All that being said, VMC for a domain is an option that I'm willing to use to get the domain power, even if it's delayed until 15th, which means I'll probably never get to use it really (which is ok, because it's mainly for flavor anyway).
So what are some other things that would be fitting for the character? I think stuff like access to Gentle Repose, a Corpse-Ferrying Bag, Unguent of Timeless, Hallow, Gravedigger's Spade, etc. would be fitting. The character will most likely have a masterwork shovel (perhaps in the form of a Traveler's Any-Tool or eventually the Spade mentioned above. Maybe access to expeditious excavation or the like.
Beyond that, being a basic melee beatstick is acceptable. The heavy armor is still preferred and some kind of divine tie would be nice but not necessary (especially since the VMC kind of brings that).
| Cavall |
I think the biggest issue with playing a paladin who worships pharasma is that there is no single aspect of her (alignment wise) that agrees with his philosophy or moral ethics. You're lawful and good, she is neither.
However, don't let that poop on your parade. Because there exists in Golarion an Egyptian type setting. And they worship old Gods too.
Like... osiris. Lawful good god. Or Anubis. Lawful and Neutral.
Both good to go. While they may not have massive followings, (due to rulers of other countries cracking down on that) worship remains to this day.
So.. Osirion homeland! Anubis?
| Cavall |
Anubis
Guardian of the Tomb
Alignment LN
Pantheon Deities of Ancient Osirion
Areas of Concern Burial, the dead, funeral rites, mummification, tombs
Domains Death, Earth, Law, Protection, Repose
Subdomains Ancestors, Defense, Inevitable, Metal, Purity, Souls
Favored Weapon Flail
Symbol Black jackal head
Sacred Animal(s) Jackal
| Azoriel |
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Damerrich is primarily associated with executions, but his portolio covers all aspects of final justice and responsibility; morticians are among his most noteworthy worshiper groups. He's lawful good and his favored weapon is the greataxe, though I imagine you could talk your GM into allowing greatsword to count as your favored weapon instead if it's an issue. (Pretty sure the greataxe thing is only because it's associated with executions, which a sword would be equally legiimate for.)
| Claxon |
While Anumbis might be a good fit for a lawful god with interest including "guardian of the tomb" it is very hard to explain why someone would be worshiping an ancient Osirion deity in Cheliax, and how they would end up wanting to join the rebellion there. It's not impossible, but if I were you're GM I would tell you that you better have a good back story to back it up.
Damerrich, would be an okay fit, though I don't think he has much to do with the "proper care, handling, and disposal of the dead" the dead as much as just being an executioner and judiciousness.
| RaizielDragon |
I think there has been plenty of discussion on the deity aspect of the character. I’m not too worried about that part at this point.
Let’s discuss more mechanical aspects. My current idea is a Paladin (Martyr, Warrior of the Holy Light) VMC Cleric. I will be missing out on some spells but I’m ok with that.
What feats, magic items (maybe custom items), would be a good fit for such a character?