TWF + Beast Totem

[Kemedo]

Exemple:

Half-Orc Barbarian with Beast Totem at lvl 6:

BAB +6/+1 (forget about Str for this exemple)

1) How it work?
Natural Attacks: Claw +6/Claw +6/Bite+1
or
Natural Attacks: Claw +6/Claw +6/Claw +1/Bite +1

2) How TWF aplies on unarmed strikes of this kind of natural attacks?

My interpretation: Claw +4/Claw +4/Claw -1/Claw -1/Bite -1 (a bit OP maybe)

3) He can get multiattack for -2 instead -5 on bite?

4) Is there by any chance a way to use TWF-chain-feats and use Dex to calculate damage instead Str?

5) Double Sliced works for Dex too, if you add Dex instead Str on damage?

Thanks in advance.

[Volkard Abendroth]

Claw +6/Claw +6/Bite +6

All natural attacks are primary and made at full BAB + Full STR.

There are no iterative attacks while fighting with natural weapons. There is no TWFing with natural attacks.

Multiattack reduces the penalties on secondary natural attacks. You currently have none.

Double Slice has no affect on natural attacks. All primary attacks are at full strength. All secondary are at half strength.

An Amulet of Mighty Fists with the agile property allows you to use DEX for damage.

[Wonderstell]

Kemedo wrote:

Exemple:

Half-Orc Barbarian with Beast Totem at lvl 6:

BAB +6/+1 (forget about Str for this exemple)

1) How it work?
Natural Attacks: Claw +6/Claw +6/Bite+1
or
Natural Attacks: Claw +6/Claw +6/Claw +1/Bite +1

So two claw primary claw attacks from Lesser Beast Totem, and a secondary bite attack from somewhere else?

That's: Claw +6/Claw +6/Bite +1

You do not gain more natural attacks from having a higher BAB.

Combat: Natural Attacks wrote:

Attacks made with natural weapons, such as claws and bites, are melee attacks that can be made against any creature within your reach (usually 5 feet). These attacks are made using your full attack bonus and deal an amount of damage that depends on their type (plus your Strength modifier, as normal). You do not receive additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack (as noted by the race or ability that grants the attacks). If you possess only one natural attack (such as a bite—two claw attacks do not qualify), you add 1–1/2 times your Strength bonus on damage rolls made with that attack.

********************

Kemedo wrote:

2) How TWF aplies on unarmed strikes of this kind of natural attacks?

My interpretation: Claw +4/Claw +4/Claw -1/Claw -1/Bite -1 (a bit OP maybe)

You can't use TWF with natural attacks to gain more attacks.

It's still: Claw +6/Claw +6/Bite +1

Combat: Natural Attacks wrote:

You can make attacks with natural weapons in combination with attacks made with a melee weapon and unarmed strikes, so long as a different limb is used for each attack. For example, you cannot make a claw attack and also use that hand to make attacks with a longsword. When you make additional attacks in this way, all of your natural attacks are treated as secondary natural attacks, using your base attack bonus minus 5 and adding only 1/2 of your Strength modifier on damage rolls. Feats such as Two-Weapon Fighting and Multiattack can reduce these penalties.

You could attack with Unarmed Strikes, and treat all your natural attacks as secondary attacks in a full-round attack.

This would give you an attack routine of: Kick +6/Kick +1/Claw +1/Claw +1/Bite +1

If you used TWF to get another kick attack, then it would look like this: Kick +4/Kick +4/Kick -1/Claw +1/Claw +1/Bite +1

And with Multiattack: Kick +4/Kick +4/Kick -1/Claw +4/Claw +4/Bite +4

********************

Kemedo wrote:

3) He can get multiattack for -2 instead -5 on bite?

Yup. If your GM allows you to take a feat from the 'Monster' category.

[Volkard Abendroth]

Wonderstell wrote:

Kemedo wrote:

Exemple:

Half-Orc Barbarian with Beast Totem at lvl 6:

BAB +6/+1 (forget about Str for this exemple)

1) How it work?
Natural Attacks: Claw +6/Claw +6/Bite+1
or
Natural Attacks: Claw +6/Claw +6/Claw +1/Bite +1

So two claw primary claw attacks from Lesser Beast Totem, and a secondary bite attack from somewhere else?

Toothy is primary.

[Wonderstell]

Volkard Abendroth wrote:

Wonderstell wrote:

So two claw primary claw attacks from Lesser Beast Totem, and a secondary bite attack from somewhere else?

Toothy is primary.

Yeah, but since Kemedo didn't specify where that bite attack came from, I'm just asking for a clarification.

While the most straightforward way to get a bite attack would be to take the Toothy racial trait, Kemedo might have gotten the bite attack from some other source, such as Tusked.

[Scott Wilhelm]

Kemedo wrote:

How TWF aplies on unarmed strikes of this kind of natural attacks?

You can do it, but don't do it. Your ST Mod to Damage will be cut in half for all your Natural Attacks, and you will suffer a -5 on all your Attack Rolls. If you take Multiattack, the penalty will be reduced to -2--perhaps acceptable, but it does nothing for the the Damage penalty, and the whole idea of a Natural Attack Barbarian is that you do extra Damage to St. You want extra attacks on top of your Claws and Bite? I want that for you. But there are other ways, better ways.

Kemedo wrote:

Is there by any chance a way to use TWF-chain-feats and use Dex to calculate damage instead Str?

Natural Attacks are Finesseable, and if you took 3 levels in Unchained Rogue, you could get Dex-to-Damage on 1 of your Natural Attacks, but that will take your character in a completely different direction. It would be a good idea for a Catfolk Unchained Rogue. But you are building a Half Orc Barbarian.

You can get a Bite Attack as a Barbarian Rage Power, but you are a Half Orc, so I recommend you get it as a Feat. You can take Lesser Beast Totem to get your Claw Attacks, or you could take a fiend totem ability to get a Gore Attack, but you can't get both Gore and Claw Attacks through Rage Powers. I recommend you get Claws through a Rage Power, then get a Gore Attack by acquiring a Helm of the Mammoth Lord or an Animal Mask. I recommend you eventually dip a level in White Haired Witch and get a Hair Attack. Now you have 5 Natural Attacks, full ST to damage, and no Attack penalties.

The thing I think is super cool about being a Half Orc Barbarian as opposed to any other Race is the Amplified Rage Feat: an extra +4 St. How can you pass up on that? Answer: it's a Teamwork Feat.

Solution: take levels in Warpriest. Worship one of those deities that has a Bite Attack and the Destruction Domain, like that evil Dragon god, Dahak or something. Take that Divine Commander or Holy Tactician--I forget what it's called--archetype. Take Weapon Focus Claws. Take Sympathetic Rage, then take Amplified Rage as your Bonus Teamwork Feat. Then when you Rage, all your Allies get a +6 Strength, and you get a +8. Plus, you can then cast Cleric Spells that will remove the Fatigued Condition that comes after you come out of a Rage. The lesser Blessing of Destruction will give you a +1 Damage on all your Natural Attacks. You will also be able to cast Spells on yourself that will let your Natural Attacks bypass Damage Reduction; Weapon Against Evil is a good example, and you get that at level 1.

At first, the Sacred Weapon Base Damage will not be an improvement on your Claws or Bite, but it will be on your White Hair, and it will be on all your Natural Attacks eventually. Once your Natural Attack base Damage increases to 1d8, dip a level in Living Monolith, which will give you the Spell-like Ability to Enlarge Person, increasing your Base Damage to 2d6 and increasing your Strength by an extra +2, so your Damage by +1.

I have other ideas if you want to hear them.

[Derklord]

Wonderstell wrote:

Yeah, but since Kemedo didn't specify where that bite attack came from, I'm just asking for a clarification.

While the most straightforward way to get a bite attack would be to take the Toothy racial trait, Kemedo might have gotten the bite attack from some other source, such as Tusked.

Doesn't matter, a bite is always primary (when combined with manufactured weapons, they're treated as secondary attacks). That -5 they mentioned? It's supposed to be reminder text, because writers seem to presume that people either are morons that use natural attack without reading the rules for them, or that they are goldfish that can't remember those rules for five seconds.

That's in addition to the idiotic presumption that every PC ever always uses manufactured weapons, period.

Yes, pure RAW, the bite from Tusked is made at BAB-5 even when made as part of an all-natural full attack, but that's only because Paizo loves adding a "condensed" version of the natural attack rules to every such options, only they leave out crucial information due to word count.

Seriously, natural attacks are the one part of Pathfinder where you have to give the general rules priority over specific rules.

[Volkard Abendroth]

Derklord wrote:

Wonderstell wrote:

Yeah, but since Kemedo didn't specify where that bite attack came from, I'm just asking for a clarification.

While the most straightforward way to get a bite attack would be to take the Toothy racial trait, Kemedo might have gotten the bite attack from some other source, such as Tusked.

Doesn't matter, a bite is always primary (when combined with manufactured weapons, they're treated as secondary attacks). That -5 they mentioned? It's supposed to be reminder text, because writers seem to presume that people either are morons that use natural attack without reading the rules for them, or that they are goldfish that can't remember those rules for five seconds.

That's in addition to the idiotic presumption that every PC ever always uses manufactured weapons, period.

Yes, pure RAW, the bite from Tusked is made at BAB-5 even when made as part of an all-natural full attack, but that's only because Paizo loves adding a "condensed" version of the natural attack rules to every such options, only they leave out crucial information due to word count.

Seriously, natural attacks are the one part of Pathfinder where you have to give the general rules priority over specific rules.

I make the mistake of assuming (idiotic on my part) that players will take toothy, which specifies primary, over tusked which has murkier RAW.

[Derklord]

Well, nothing you wrote was wrong, so I see no mistake or idiotic assumption. Where the bite comes from should not matter!