Can a mage see x far?


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So, Long range is 400 feet + 40 per casting level. If someone has some sort of cover/concealment, that is a +44 or more bonus to stealth, right? So, effectively, what is the real range of most spells? 100 feet + 10 per casting level is still going to give a +11 bonus to people's duck and cover.

I suppose "out in the open" these ranges are ok. I was just trying to figure out a reasonable "snipe range" for a Sorcerer / Magus with a fully extended Shocking Grasp, while themselves invisible (+2, +3 if metal armor worn by victim, touch AC w/o Dex bonus). And there is no range increment so this is most likely to go off without a hitch.

Why aren't there more spellcasters in the assassination field? Is there some sort of "vision" that allows you to see through cover (feats, I expect that allow you to ignore it would cancel the person's ability to use stealth in the first place?).

Also, can this stealth be negated by say a Clairaudience-Clairvoyance spell located near the hiding victim allowing you to see the "other side" of the cover they are using? And thus still able to use touch attack spells - with say truestrike to ignore the concealment miss chance. Would that bypass the cover as well? Or does CC not provide line of sight past the cover (only concealment).


This is where the standard perception rule breaks down a bit. See also 'Why can't we see the Sun in PF?' I suspect a penalty which increases each time the range doubles would work better outside the close ranges common in PF battles.

There are ways of seeing thru solid material like a stone mystery oracle or stone spirit shaman's crystal sight, a ring of x-ray vision and likely some others I haven't thought of just now. They don't allow you to cast spells through the cover, though it may be possible to position a fireball (or similar) where you have line of sight/effect which bypasses the cover.

Clairvoyance doesn't change line of effect either even if it allows line of sight.


maouse33 wrote:
So, Long range is 400 feet + 40 per casting level. If someone has some sort of cover/concealment, that is a +44 or more bonus to stealth, right? So, effectively, what is the real range of most spells? 100 feet + 10 per casting level is still going to give a +11 bonus to people's duck and cover.

If they are stealthed at this range, you'd never even be aware of their existence. If you are actually aware they are there, and then they begin to stealth, you're better off flying over there, or using a familiar to cast spells on them, like this:

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/familiar-spell-metamagic/

If you do have a familiar, and that familiar is a raven, or an Improved Familiar that can fly and UMD and cast their own spells, cover at that range isn't an issue, especially while using this feat. But, 400 ft isn't really that far when you think about it, it's just 1.3 football fields, and 800ft is 2.6 football fields. You can cast AoE spells fairly well from that range. Obviously this is really far if the opposition has Cover/Concealment and you have no ability to fly over there or "cast behind them" with a flying familiar, but they're also very far off your "combat map" (if you're playing with miniatures and 5ft squares). 400ft+ is almost impossible, or at least improbable, to accurately plot using 5ft squares with a normal size table, so 400ft+ distance spells are quite abstract and usually narrated or thematicized by the GM as far as the description of what happens at that sort of a distance.

maouse33 wrote:


Why aren't there more spellcasters in the assassination field? Is there some sort of "vision" that allows you to see through cover (feats, I expect that allow you to ignore it would cancel the person's ability to use stealth in the first place?).

Also, can this stealth be negated by say a Clairaudience-Clairvoyance spell located near the hiding victim allowing you to see the "other side" of the cover they are using? And thus still able to use touch attack spells - with say truestrike to ignore the concealment miss chance. Would that bypass the cover as well? Or does CC not provide line of sight past the cover (only concealment).

If you want to be an assassin style caster, you need to get spells that help with infiltration and distance-closure, like dimension door and invisibility, etc.

Spellcasters do enjoy sniping/assassinating. Yes, Clairvoyance/audience would allow you to see/hear through cover, at least to know where their current position is, but not to appropriately cast at, because you need direct line of sight for almost any spell other than AoE spells. So you could toss a fireball at a bunch of enemies under Cover behind a big rock, but you still need direct line of sight of where you're placing the fireball while still keeping them within the radius of the AoE effect.

True Strike would not affect a spell's ability to ignore the miss chance from cover because true strike only affects attacks towards AC, which you would obviously need to be making a melee or ranged attack (but it would affect your Touch spells and Ranged Touch spells). And no, True Strike would not help you bypass total cover, unless you were making a ranged attack at a target with partial cover, all the way up to 3/4th's cover.

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