So how do you handle it? Lemme explain.
APs are written for a general group and an expected guess of a level. So basically milestones. So how do you handle it? Go by the milestones with no EXP at all? Lower the amount given for side activities or roleplay moments? Not worry about managing the EXP for the books and just scale the CR up with higher DCs and monster templates?
There's probably more ways to deal with it so that's why I'm asking.
Personly i just use milestones the aps tend to tell you when they should be what level, than i dont need to worry about ex our making shure they dont get to mutch, but that's just me
The APs are well-calibrated in terms of XP for a group of 4-5 PCs to attain the intended levels more-or-less at roughly the milestones mentioned throughout the campaign.
For a fairly typical group of 4 or 5 either method works fine and should not require any significant alteration to the encountered critters.
XP awarded outside of the scripted story and encounter awards are what have to be accounted for. If such awards are not significantly adjusting the APL of the PCs, I would not worry about it.
OTOH if 'unscripted' XP awards are racking up significantly more XP than anticipated by The Script perhaps adjustments down-track will be required.
It really depends on your group's 'play style'. For some the incremental rewards of XP at the end of every session, even if all other 'rewards' for the session are lacking (loot), is their bread and butter. For others only attaining the milestones matter. Some groups are in-between these positions. YMWV
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I go with milestones, for AP and homebrew. Because sometimes you want to add or skip a few things, it is easier that way. Yes maybe they will be sonner at level 6, but maybe the 10th level will take longer. It gives me the freedom I want to explore more or less some levels.
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I use XP. Milestones sound good on paper, but they ignore the psychology of handing out a constant stream of small rewards and watching them build up towards The Next Big Thing. There's value to the players' groan of "Jeez, we're just 2000 XP short of next level, when is the next game?".
I use XP. Milestones sound good on paper, but they ignore the psychology of handing out a constant stream of small rewards and watching them build up towards The Next Big Thing. There's value to the players' groan of "Jeez, we're just 2000 XP short of next level, when is the next game?".
I've noticed that too. When my group switched to milestones, the risk-reward for attending every session went away over time.
"Meh, I can come back later, everyone'll be the same level and more-or-less the same items anyway."
The story is not always compelling enough to keep people coming every session. Even for the better APs/campaigns at least as often as not there are chunks of it that are of little interest that take 2 or 3 sessions to resolve. Not every GM peruses published material well in advance - some of us are a bit notorious for GM'ing it off the page as it is turned. Sometimes this bites ... mostly it can be pretty awesome.
"Oh, wow, so THAT is what that means. Check this out everyone! [cool text read-aloud follows]"
Well currently I'm handing out EXP but trying to keep in mind the milestone caps.
We haven't gone off the rails of the AP but there's a few changes that might have either pushed them over or under(Extra fight, puzzle, removed or skipped battles) so I'm trying to get a good handle on just how to do it.
I stopped using XP back in the 3.5 days, and use story-based advancement exclusively.
My players tend to be in it for the story, not the level-grinding, and everyone prefers not to bother with the meticulous running totals.
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I suppose it really depends on way the plauers play, if there all about role playing and the story, so story based level up is fine, but some player play for the combat and grinding so they like xp, there really is no rihgt answer
Both of my groups use the benchmarks for levelling, but I still keep track of what they've done. If an encounter has been completely avoided (not defeated, not persuaded not to attack, not Stealthed around), then the party might level a bit later than planned by the AP.
I use a hybrid system, really, where the players level around the time they get to the milestones bit still get XP as rewards every session. Never underestimate the value of Players getting rewards
I haven't used XP for years - I level them when it makes sense. I'm surprised that some people have players who need to be bribed with XP to play - my group plays because we enjoy it. I would never go back to handing out XP.
It isn't bribery unless small amounts of positive reinforcement is considered bribery. I can go for multiple sessions without loot, but experience points tell me we're more-or-less on the right track while butt-kicking for Goodness/Evil/teenage angst/political drama/[insert something here].
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For me, the level up itself is a fine enough reward mechanism. As a player, I'm fine with either, but as a GM, I prefer the milestone system. I have players who want to show up for each session to find out what comes next, removing EXP means one thing less they have to calculate, my players would take it as an irritant if some of them got to level up while others were held back because their family needed something or similar.
If I had a group of players who preferred calculating EXP, I'd offer small extra amounts for helping out one another or for the first one to figure out how important plot points fit together.
Either way, I give them downtime when they hit a new level, so they can do the practice and introspection they need to figure out new things.
my players would take it as an irritant if some of them got to level up while others were held back because their family needed something or similar.
that's why my players get the XP regardless of showing up or missing a session
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I ditched XP a long time ago because I kept running into meta problems and violence being the answer to everything. My players always tried to find the "right path" meaning the one they are best suited for dealing with by level and not interest. It often wasn't the right path or the interesting narrative one, its just what they thought they had to take.
Ditching XP was a no brainer. My players love the game and dont need incentives to show up. So I dodged that bullet, I suppose, though I do find it odd needing to be bribed to show up. Thats is neither here nor there.
After a little adjustment the players are much more focused on the plot and what they need to engage it. More importantly, they engage the story in ways that are more fitting and interesting for their characters.
I have 5 players in my group so the AP needs a little adjusting. My group is fairly optimized, so I challenge them with max HP on enemies. Sometimes I may add or beef opponents, but its not often. I also keep the party 1 level behind the advancement track starting at about 5-6th level. This is my preferred combo. YMMV.
I haven't used XP for years - I level them when it makes sense. I'm surprised that some people have players who need to be bribed with XP to play - my group plays because we enjoy it. I would never go back to handing out XP.It isn't bribery unless small amounts of positive reinforcement is considered bribery. I can go for multiple sessions without loot, but experience points tell me we're more-or-less on the right track while butt-kicking for Goodness/Evil/teenage angst/political drama/[insert something here].This is your quote I was responding to:
"I've noticed that too. When my group switched to milestones, the risk-reward for attending every session went away over time.
"'Meh, I can come back later, everyone'll be the same level and more-or-less the same items anyway.'
"The story is not always compelling enough to keep people coming every session."
I can't imagine gaming with players who would skip sessions because the story wasn't "compelling" at that moment. Every player is going to find moments in the campaign that are more or less interesting to them personally. As a grown-up who has made a commitment to the game, I am going to show up without demanding to be fascinated every moment.
If everyone is bored with the campaign then it's time for a change. If someone is consistently bored, it's time for a discussion with the GM. But the first time a player said, "I'm not finding this compelling, so I'll see you next session - unless I'll miss out on some XP" there wouldn't be a next session for them.
Sometimes an AP has long stretches of fairly boring stuff going on. Age of Worms (at least 2 chapters) and Savage Tide (3 entire chapters) are both guilty of this, as are several of the later APs. In such circumstances one often has a strong idea/clue that what is ahead sounds like it is going to be awesome. Slogging through 'filler' is what can cause temporary boredom.
If one is fortunate the group are friends away from the table and the slog is mildly felt. In groups that barely communicate away from the table, however, your comments are on-point IME. :)
What on Earth have you got in mind here ? I can think of one chapter in Age of Worms that's very stylistically different from the rest (the one that is largely the birthday party) and I can just about see that being deemed boring by out and out murderhobos, but I am at a loss for what you might have in mind for a second one there, or at all in Savage Tide.
Sometimes an AP has long stretches of fairly boring stuff going on. Age of Worms (at least 2 chapters) and Savage Tide (3 entire chapters) are both guilty of this, as are several of the later APs.
I sharply remember what we considered to be the boring stretch of Savage Tide: the three chapters devoted to making deals with fiends. Flavor text and such are awesome. Handling the mechanics ... le snooze.
Fair enough; I thought those were awesome entirely.
I sharply remember what we considered to be the boring stretch of Savage Tide: the three chapters devoted to making deals with fiends. Flavor text and such are awesome. Handling the mechanics ... le snooze.
To be fair to the authors, the right group mindset is required to make the most of those chapters. That group at that time ... not a good idea. A HUGE group of 8 or 9 'hack-n-slash' players is ridiculously unwieldy for those chapters. I culled it down to the essential scenes and got on to the Super Fun Stuff afterwards.
What a difference many years' time makes. :)