Combat maneuvers and iterative attacks

[Frozen Mustelid]

When I use iterative attacks and swap out a later attack for a combat maneuver, does the CMB roll suffer the same cumulative -5 to BAB the attack would?

CRB198 gives a formula for calculating CMB, but CRB199 says CMB rolls are attack rolls. The section "Performing a Combat Maneuver" says that you add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus, but it also says that you would add any bonuses or penalties you would normally have on an attack roll.

So if I want to trip and I have a BAB of +6 or better, is it my best option to do that for my first attack or my last?

[VoodistMonk]

Do you have greater trip? The bonuses from feats to your maneuver check usually help account for BAB penalties associated with later attacks. You trip last, and get another free hit from greater trip... It's like you never gave up the attack for a maneuver, and they are prone.

[Frozen Mustelid]

So later combat maneuver attempts are made at a lower BAB than higher attacks/attempts?

[Volkard Abendroth]

Combat Maneuvers used as an iterative attack suffer the same to-hit penalties as any other attack.

[Frozen Mustelid]

Volkard Abendroth wrote:

Combat Maneuvers used as an iterative attack suffer the same to-hit penalties as any other attack.

That's the thing, though - By the RAW, I was unable to find anything that says the lower attacks actually have a penalty. The sections I looked at say that you gain another attack at BAB of +6 and every 5 thereafter, but not that these lower attacks technically have a penalty applied to them.

The part that confuses me is the part that says, "add any bonuses you have on an attack rolls." Obviously you wouldn't add STR and BAB to your CMB roll again, so it really looks to me like you have two ways of calculating CMB after you get iterative attacks. There's the big, bold text on CRB198 and the smaller, more detailed text on CRB199.

[Wonderstell]

Alright. You know how every class has a description? Look at the BAB progression as you level up in the classes. Notice how when you reach +6 BAB, there's an additional number to the right of your BAB? That's the base attack bonus on your second attack you get from BAB.

You add all your normal bonuses/penalties to the other attack at +1 BAB. So Strength, Weapon Focus, Weapon Enhancements, Two-Weapon Fighting penalties, etc.

Technically, you dont have a -5 penalty on your second attack. You just have +1 BAB on that attack, instead of +6 BAB.

So if you make Trip combat maneuvers instead of normal attacks, your first Trip attempt is made at BAB +6, and the second at BAB +1.

[Qaianna]

Another illustration is the unchained barbarian Knockback rage power. It cites that a barbarian can use 'her full CMB regardless of the attack it replaces.' This means doing this is an exception -- normally, if your +8/+3 warrior uses the +3 attack for a manoeuvre, you're using the +3 and not the +8.

[Frozen Mustelid]

Thanks for your answers, everybody!

Qaianna wrote:

Another illustration is the unchained barbarian Knockback rage power. It cites that a barbarian can use 'her full CMB regardless of the attack it replaces.' This means doing this is an exception -- normally, if your +8/+3 warrior uses the +3 attack for a manoeuvre, you're using the +3 and not the +8.

Finally, some rules text! It would have been better if this was printed in CRB, but it seems to be some unwritten law of the universe that every 3.x sourcebook has to have some really key information locked up and hidden somewhere you'd never think to look.