A Scavenger does not gain any bonuses to or special uses of the craft (alchemy) skill. Would this also apply to the Swift Alchemy ability, making it in effect Swift Gadgetry?
scavenger wrote: Gadgetry (Su)
A scavenger is a master of mechanical arts rather than alchemical ones, and he gains a competence bonus on Craft (clockwork) checks equal to his class level.
He can use Knowledge (engineering) to identify wondrous items as if using detect magic and Spellcraft. A scavenger does not gain any bonuses to or special uses of the Craft (alchemy) skill.
Rather than prepare his extracts as consumable liquids, a scavenger constructs small, single-use devices infused with bits of his own magic aura to achieve the same effects. Alchemist and investigator discoveries that affect extracts result in identical effects on a scavenger’s gadgets (such as the infusion discovery, which would allow another creature to use a gadget, just as it would allow that creature to use an extract).
This ability modifies alchemy.
swift alchemy wrote: Swift Alchemy (Ex)
At 4th level, an investigator can create alchemical items with astounding speed. It takes an investigator half the normal amount of time to create alchemical items. He can also apply poison to a weapon as a move action instead of a standard action.
It does not, it's referring to the bonuses granted by that ability itself.
If swift alchemy was a discovery it would become swift gadgetry, but as a class ability that doesn't grant a bonus or a special use of the alchemy skill it does not change anything.
I dunno, half-time is a pretty pretty big alteration to it, in my book... It directly changes how long crafting them TAKES you. The only thing that argues in favor of it not is the fact that Poison application isn't actually an alchemy effect, but changing one part of a two-part skill isn't unheard of.
So swift alchemy wouldn't be considered a special use of craft (alchemy)? Just doesn't seem to fit the intent of the archetype.
By RAW it is not, it would be perfectly reasonable for a GM to say that it is changed to swift gadgetry, but RAW it is not.
You're altering the time period in which a Craft (Alchemy) check is made. Isn't that... like... an archetypal example of "special use"?
Zarius wrote: You're altering the time period in which a Craft (Alchemy) check is made. Isn't that... like... an archetypal example of "special use"? No, the archetypal of a special use would be able to do something using it that you normally wouldn't, like using craft alchemy when crafting armors or weapons (that aren't alchemical), or being able to make knowledge or appraise checks using it instead.
It could be argued that it's a bonus, (since you're essentially gaining a bonus to how fast you create things), but the ability itself doesn't mention it being a bonus anywhere, nor does it provide any bonuses.
Therefore by RAW, it's not affected.
Also note, upon rereading the ability that since it's not a discovery the benefits wouldn't change to be applied to gadgetry. You would simply lose the benefits of the ability.
Except that we aren't even actually talking about Craft Alchemy, now that I'm looking at it closer (and feeling better). We're talking about the Investigators Alchemy CLASS ABILITY, which is ENTIRELY separate from Craft Alchemy. Swift Alchemy, while it could be argued would APPLY to Craft(Alchemy), ISN'T stated for Craft(Alchemy) checks, it's stated for "Alchemical items." Period. Across the board. All. YES. This very much affects both Craft(Alchemy) checks and what the Investigator base class can do with their Alchemy class ability. It's affected by Gadgetry, because the main thing it's meant to affect (a class perk of the class that grants the other class perk) is changed, by a different optional class perk.
Gadgetry wrote: Gadgetry (Su)
A scavenger is a master of mechanical arts rather than alchemical ones, and he gains a competence bonus on Craft (clockwork) checks equal to his class level.
He can use Knowledge (engineering) to identify wondrous items as if using detect magic and Spellcraft. A scavenger does not gain any bonuses to or special uses of the Craft (alchemy) skill.
Rather than prepare his extracts as consumable liquids, a scavenger constructs small, single-use devices infused with bits of his own magic aura to achieve the same effects. Alchemist and investigator discoveries that affect extracts result in identical effects on a scavenger’s gadgets (such as the infusion discovery, which would allow another creature to use a gadget, just as it would allow that creature to use an extract).
This ability modifies alchemy.
Swift Alchemy wrote: Swift Alchemy (Ex)
At 4th level, an investigator can create alchemical items with astounding speed. It takes an investigator half the normal amount of time to create alchemical items. He can also apply poison to a weapon as a move action instead of a standard action.
1) The ability references craft (alchemy), if it's not a craft (Alchemy) bonus it has no effect. Since it does not apply a bonus or special use of craft (alchemy) it's not affected by this.
2) Discoveries affect gadgets the same as they do extracts. The ability is not a discovery, therefore it does not apply to gadgets.
3) This leaves us with, do gadgets and items crafted with the craft (clockwork) skill count as alchemical items?
- If they do, then this ability applies.
- If they don't, then this ability doesn't apply.
Note: Gadgetry specifically says "A scavenger is a master of mechanical arts rather than alchemical ones." which would lead me to believe that they are not alchemical item (in addition to them using craft (clockwork) and not craft (alchemy).
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