So I have a new warpriest in my party and I'm trying to understand the blessings. For strength, the minor blessing reads:
"At 1st level, as a swift action you can focus your own strength. You gain an enhancement bonus equal to 1/2 your warpriest level (minimum +1) on melee attack rolls, combat maneuver checks that rely on Strength, Strength-based skills, and Strength checks for 1 round."
If I understand things correctly, this would not stack with Bull's Strength, since they are both Strength enhancements.
I read in another thread that the Strength blessing would not stack with a magic weapon enhancement, such as a +2 shortsword? That makes no sense to me. One is a modifier from enhanced strength, while one is a modifier from the more deadly nature of a magical weapon - they're just intrinsically different. Is there a logical (as opposed to a strictly rules-based) argument for why the two shouldn't stack?
Thanks!
it would stack with bull's strength since that's an enhancement to str and you just add str to attack rolls.
it doesn't stack with magic weapon since that adds an enhancement bonus to your attack roll.
Your understanding is wrong, this blessing doesn't do anything to your strength.
it would stack with bull's strength since that's an enhancement to str and you just add str to attack rolls.
it doesn't stack with magic weapon since that adds an enhancement bonus to your attack roll.Your understanding is wrong, this blessing doesn't do anything to your strength.
I understand it doesn't do anything TO your strength, but according to the description the enhancement comes from "focus[ing] your own strength", ie., it's just like a strength bonus (at least that seems to be the implication). There are lots of types of enhancements to attack rolls, in this case one comes from strength and one comes from the weapon.
That said, your reading may well be the correct rules interpretation. I just don't think it makes a lot of sense.
No, there's only enhancement bonus to str, that's the type, regardless of the fluff or source of the bonus.
If the ability said,
"At 1st level, as a swift action you can focus your inner duck. You gain an enhancement bonus equal to 1/2 your warpriest level (minimum +1) on melee attack rolls"
It would have no different effect. The effect is an enhancement bonus to your attack rolls and that's the same type of bonus a magic weapon gives.
I think inner duck enhancements not stacking is a different rule. ;)
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There are two schools of thought regarding how this enhancement bonus works.
One is that you can have an enhancement bonus to melee attacks (Warpriest Blessing), and an enhancement bonus to your weapon. Since the bonuses affect different things, they both count. This aligns with the idea that you can have an enhancement bonus to Natural Armor, and an enhancement bonus on your actual armor, and that they both apply to your total Armor Class.
The other thought is that you can only ever have one enhancement bonus apply to any given thing. If you had a +3 weapon, and a +5 Strength Blessing, only the greater of the two applies. This would consequently mean that a 10th level Warpriest automatically overcomes DR/Alignment, and a 12th level Warpriest overcomes DR/Epic. To me, that seems unintended.
I personally go with #1. My Warpriest is about to reach 15th level this upcoming weekend, and it's how nearly every GM I've ever had decided to rule it.
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A masterwork weapon is a finely crafted version of a normal weapon. Wielding it provides a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls.
You gain an enhancement bonus equal to 1/2 your warpriest level (minimum +1) on melee attack rolls
Both are enhancement to attack rolls and thus don't stack.
you can have an enhancement bonus to melee attacks (Warpriest Blessing), and an enhancement bonus to your weapon. Since the bonuses affect different things, they both count.
"" CRB pg. 467 The weapon applies the bonus, which is still an enhancement bonus, to attack rolls. The Blessing provides an enhancement bonus on attack rolls. Result: Doesn't stack.
If you had a +3 weapon, and a +5 Strength Blessing, only the greater of the two applies. This would consequently mean that a 10th level Warpriest automatically overcomes DR/Alignment, and a 12th level Warpriest overcomes DR/Epic.
"" CRB pg. 562 The weapon needs to have the respective enhancement bonus, not the attack roll. Result: Strength Blessing never helps to penetrate damage reduction (yes, not even DR/Magic).
This aligns with the idea that you can have an enhancement bonus to Natural Armor, and an enhancement bonus on your actual armor, and that they both apply to your total Armor Class.
Armor Bonus and Natural Armor Bonus are two completely different bonus categories, our issue is about two enhancement bonuses.
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Well, looking this over, I probably have to agree with Chess Pwn and Derklord, strictly in terms of their application of the rule. But, thinking of it practically, it still doesn't seem logical why a Strength blessing bonus somehow negates a magic weapon bonus, for example. To me, they're different types of bonuses. It just doesn't pass the sniff test with me.
Thanks all for weighing in!
It's that mechanically they didn't want the bonuses to be to crazy, that's why they use types and have same types not stacking rules. The designer thought that weapon bonuses plus this bonus is too much, but that this bonus - weapon bonus was a good bonus to give.
Well, looking this over, I probably have to agree with Chess Pwn and Derklord, strictly in terms of their application of the rule. But, thinking of it practically, it still doesn't seem logical why a Strength blessing bonus somehow negates a magic weapon bonus, for example. To me, they're different types of bonuses. It just doesn't pass the sniff test with me.
Thanks all for weighing in!
#1, it doesn't negate the bonus: that weapon bonus is very important for bypassing DR and they continue to add to DAMAGE. So not stacking doesn't mean it's meaningless.
#2 you're ignoring the rest of the benefits. Non-weapon combat maneuver checks that rely on Strength, Strength-based skills, and Strength checks get the FULL bonus: it's only the weapon part that doesn't stack so the ability does plenty with or without a magic weapon so IMO it's passes the sniff test quite well.
Do you allow an Amulet of Natural Armor +1 to stack with +1 Full Plate?
Those aren't direct or untyped bonuses to AC, but typed bonuses: One is a bonus to NATURAL AC, one is an ARMOR bonus and you could have one as a SHIELD bonus. The enhancement bonus from the items adds to those bonuses and NOT directly to the AC.
For the ability in question, there is no type other than enhancement: as such, they don't stack.