|
I still feel like a total newb every time I sit down to play or GM a game (especially when Starship Combat is involved), but I learn something new every time I do so. This weekend at DunDraCon I learned the value of Ally Boons.
I hadn't spent a single point of Fame on my 6th level Android Soldier. Someone asked me why, and I told them I didn't see anything worth spending it on. They noted that my Cha 08 character could probably use some social skills, and pointed me to the Hireling Boons available to all Factions.
Needless to say I immediately dropped 7 Fame on the first four versions of the Skill Set 2 Hireling, netting my previously anti-social Android a +12 in Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate. I plan to flavor him using those skills as, "Please stand-by, initializing social protocols".
Now, as I build more characters, I plan on having each of them take advantage of different allies. I can't envision a character *not* using one.
And so to whoever came up with this mechanic, HANK OU
|
So I wonder, will this mechanic encourage even more extreme min/max builds like the old 7/7/7 barbarian if you know you just just buy some hirelings to take up the slack? Don’t get me wrong, fundamentally I like the boon slot system and the ally boon is a cool game mechanic, but will it be problematic over time?
|
Regional Venture-Coordinator, Central Europe
|
So I wonder, will this mechanic encourage even more extreme min/max builds like the old 7/7/7 barbarian if you know you just just buy some hirelings to take up the slack? Don’t get me wrong, fundamentally I like the boon slot system and the ally boon is a cool game mechanic, but will it be problematic over time?
You can't do that in starfinder because the character creation system gives you no bonus points for dumping stats. And starfinder characters have more skill points anyway and less different skills to use them for.
|
|
Skill points are still limited. I’ve got three characters and every one ran out of skill points before I have something in all the skills I wanted.
My same Android has an 18 Int (14 starting, +2 Upgrade, +2 @ 5th), and even with 8 skills/level I wanted more. But he was built (pun intended) as a jungle and hazardous environment survivalist, and not a socialite.
Although this Boon helps him shore up that weakness, he's still not as good as a 6th level Envoy (6 ranks, +4 Cha, +3 Class, +1d6 Insight). The Envoy can also benefit from situational modifiers, whereas the Hireling cannot.
My 10 Int Icon will get one of the more Knowledgeable Hirelings and flavor them as a nerdy stage manager. But the early level Hirelings don't give you much of a bonus. It's a long term investment. I just happen to usually plan my characters in advance.
|
I too wonder about the min-maxing potential. Why would my mechanic put points in Diplomacy when I can just hire somebody to do it? I see a lot of people doing this.
However it will probably get more balanced when the intro recommends you slot the "Friend of the Terran Empire" ally boon and they realize they won't have their hireling if they do so.
I did notice that at 5th level if I slot my Efficient Administrator (Second Seekers boon) and someone else slots an Elite Hiring, that's a +14 modifier on at least 3 skills. Which isn't particularly easy for PCs to get at 5th level.
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Oh, here's another thing: the "slot your boons phase" seems to occur only once at the beginning of the session, usually after mission briefing and knowledge checks. So you probably can't use the hireling for those knowledge checks. Or would it be fair game to slot boons even before mission briefing and take your chances that with more information you'd have chosen differently?
|
|
Oh, here's another thing: the "slot your boons phase" seems to occur only once at the beginning of the session, usually after mission briefing and knowledge checks. So you probably can't use the hireling for those knowledge checks. Or would it be fair game to slot boons even before mission briefing and take your chances that with more information you'd have chosen differently?
The language usually used is "finalize your boon slots" and the instructions to do so usually appear after the briefing and Q&A sections but before the Culture/Knowledge checks.
With that in mind I'm fine with players using a hireling to make a Culture check after the briefing. In addition, the "mission-opening" checks rarely have a time pressure associated with them, so a hireling could fill in the PCs on what she knows after they pick her up (slot the boon).
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Needless to say I immediately dropped 7 Fame on the first four versions of the Skill Set 2 Hireling, netting my previously anti-social Android a +12 in Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate. I plan to flavor him using those skills as, "Please stand-by, initializing social protocols".
The NPC is making the skill check, not your character.
I'm not a fan. These seem to remove the need for diverse classes at the table. Why am I playing an Envoy if a hireling obviates my skill set?
|
Oh, here's another thing: the "slot your boons phase" seems to occur only once at the beginning of the session, usually after mission briefing and knowledge checks. So you probably can't use the hireling for those knowledge checks. Or would it be fair game to slot boons even before mission briefing and take your chances that with more information you'd have chosen differently?
You should talk to your GM, because they are (probably inadvertently) short-changing you. The standard sequence is Receive Briefing --> PC's ask questions --> PC's slot boons --> PC's (and/or hirelings) use Culture/Diplomacy to recall knowledge/gather information.
There has never been a SFS scenario or quest published where slotting a hireling would take place after those checks. In fact, aside from the two scenarios that don't allow for slotting boons (1-00 & Quest), 1-08 is only exception (at this time) to this pattern, and even then you slot earlier than normal, not later.
Starfinder Society Developer
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Some Developer Insight: The intent for the hireling is that they are not as efficient as a PC who's hyper-specialized in a specific skill. People who rush towards spending their immediate Fame rewards on "the highest available hireling" are also leaving themselves in incredible risk when it comes to having spare Fame for purchases like Raise Dead. As we reach higher tiers of play, I suspect we'll start accruing some scenarios that can push parties to their limits, and Fame becomes an issue if you need to have a spare 14 points around...
The Efficient Administrator boon is an added bonus to this, but also something that (as we've stated) isn't necessarily going to be available to all PCs for forever. Once the First Seeker changes, it's likely that this boon becomes more a of legacy item. This particular boon association is also difficult to look at in a vacuum, because we need hirelings to be appealing to players who don't have a hardcore "ok we've all got our individual hirelings doing different sets and one of us has the administrator." Yes those situations happen, but we're not considering them the normal behavior for most tables.
As has been already mentioned in this thread, as more and more scenarios get released, Ally boons become more prominent in their application. I've recently completed a slew of outlines that call on old ally boons, and slotting these radically alters the flow and story of some scenarios, sometimes granting massive bonuses if one or more players has the appropriate boon from a previous Chronicle sheet. In those situations, players are going to have to make the hard choice of "Do I slot my amazing hireling who fills my skill gaps, or so I slot this AbadarCorp Acquaintance boon that can potentially grant me a large boost and add to the ongoing campaign story of my character?"
Difficult choices ahead. I like making people make difficult choices :)
Much like anything in the campaign, the Organized Play team will continue to monitor the use of different rules and gauge their overall impact to the health of the game. If something is really a problem, we'll step in and adjust it as necessary.
|
|
Needless to say I immediately dropped 7 Fame on the first four versions of the Skill Set 2 Hireling, netting my previously anti-social Android a +12 in Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate. I plan to flavor him using those skills as, "Please stand-by, initializing social protocols".The NPC is making the skill check, not your character.
Indeed. I never stated otherwise.
For my Android, the NPC will be "social protocols". I plan on using a different voice and different mannerisms.
For my Icon, it's probably be some stereotypically nerdy sounding stage manager.
I feel the description of the Boon is open-ended enough to accommodate such variations in RP.
|
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
|
Oh, here's another thing: the "slot your boons phase" seems to occur only once at the beginning of the session, usually after mission briefing and knowledge checks. So you probably can't use the hireling for those knowledge checks. Or would it be fair game to slot boons even before mission briefing and take your chances that with more information you'd have chosen differently?You should talk to your GM, because they are (probably inadvertently) short-changing you. The standard sequence is Receive Briefing --> PC's ask questions --> PC's slot boons --> PC's (and/or hirelings) use Culture/Diplomacy to recall knowledge/gather information.
There has never been a SFS scenario or quest published where slotting a hireling would take place after those checks. In fact, aside from the two scenarios that don't allow for slotting boons (1-00 & Quest), 1-08 is only exception (at this time) to this pattern, and even then you slot earlier than normal, not later.
I haven't been shortchanged, because I only found out hirelings were relevant just now (SO much more than in PFS...)
But what I'm driving at is, the order in which you slot hirelings and enact knowledge checks is relevant. I get the impression there's only one "slot boons now" phase, and it would be either before or after rolling knowledges.
If it's before knowledges, you could profit from hirelings with appropriate knowledge skills. But if it's after, then you can use the information gained to make better boon slotting choices. Both sequences have advantages. In either case, knowing which order is the default helps decide which hirelings are most valuable.