Buckler and Two-Weapon Fighting


Rules Questions


Hypothetical: If I have a buckler with an attached bonus, such as poison resistance or fortification, light, when I attack with my off-hand weapon, I lose my shield bonus to AC until my next turn. Do I also lose the benefits of poison resistance or fortification?


Funny...I literally asked our PFS Venture Lieutenant this exactly question yesterday.
Sadly, it was as expected. You aren't using the shield as a shield any longer, so you don't get the additional abilities (such as light fortification).


Activation: Usually a character benefits from magic armor and shields in exactly the way a character benefits from nonmagical armor and shields: by wearing them. If armor or a shield has a special ability that the user needs to activate, then the user usually needs to utter the command word (a standard action).


Gisher wrote:
Activation: Usually a character benefits from magic armor and shields in exactly the way a character benefits from nonmagical armor and shields: by wearing them. If armor or a shield has a special ability that the user needs to activate, then the user usually needs to utter the command word (a standard action).

Not that I'm trying to argue for using the abilities in the above situation....but this doesn't relate to "always on" abilities, such as poison resistance or light fortification.


FAQ

If you aren't treating the shield as a shield, you don't get ancillary benefits of it being enchanted as a shield.


Gallant Armor wrote:

FAQ

If you aren't treating the shield as a shield, you don't get ancillary benefits of it being enchanted as a shield.

That is a specific FAQ on the defending enchant, and devs, such as Mark, have said that FAQ's are meant to narrowly apply ONLY to what's mentioned in that FAQ.

Secondly, we HAVE a rule on what the proper way to use armor/shields are: "by wearing them". Defending with, attacking with or any other limitation isn't part of that.

3rd: [rant] that has to be one of the dumbest FAQ's ever... who ever thought having the activation come BEFORE the triggering event (setting bonus at start of turn, activates on attack) was a good idea... :P [/rant]

shalandar wrote:


Not that I'm trying to argue for using the abilities in the above situation....but this doesn't relate to "always on" abilities, such as poison resistance or light fortification.

It does though as it first tells how you benefit from armor/weapons [wear them] THEN goes on to tell you how to activate them ["If armor or a shield has a special ability that the user needs to activate, then the user usually needs to utter the command word (a standard action)"].


graystone wrote:
Gallant Armor wrote:

FAQ

If you aren't treating the shield as a shield, you don't get ancillary benefits of it being enchanted as a shield.

That is a specific FAQ on the defending enchant, and devs, such as Mark, have said that FAQ's are meant to narrowly apply ONLY to what's mentioned in that FAQ.

Secondly, we HAVE a rule on what the proper way to use armor/shields are: "by wearing them". Defending with, attacking with or any other limitation isn't part of that.

"Unless otherwise specified, you have to use a magic item in the manner it is designed (use a weapon to make attacks, wear a shield on your arm so you can defend with it, and so on) to gain its benefits. "

That is a generally statement not a specific ruling.

Taking actions that prevent a buckler from acting as a shield should prevent all ancillary benefits as well.


Gallant Armor wrote:
wear a shield on your arm so you can defend with it

Nothing about attacking has stopped you from "wearing it on your arm".

If getting the shield bonus was the requirement, then getting flatfooted/surprised prevents it too. Nothing about attacking unstraps a buckler from your arm.

Then what happens if i take unhindered shield: "You still gain a buckler’s bonus to AC even if you use your shield hand for some other purpose." By your theory, they should LOSE their shield abilities even if they keep their shield bonus as they used the shield arm for something OTHER than just defending with it. Or someone with improved shield bash.

IMO, NOTHING in the FAQ overrides the general rule in the activtion section. You have to WEAR the shield to gets it's passive powers.


graystone wrote:
Gallant Armor wrote:
wear a shield on your arm so you can defend with it

Nothing about attacking has stopped you from "wearing it on your arm".

If getting the shield bonus was the requirement, then getting flatfooted/surprised prevents it too. Nothing about attacking unstraps a buckler from your arm.

You are missing an important distinction; "wear a shield on your arm so you can defend with it". If you lose the shield bonus to AC, you are no longer defending with it. Also, bucklers still work when the wearer is surprised/flatfooted.

graystone wrote:
Then what happens if i take unhindered shield: "You still gain a buckler’s bonus to AC even if you use your shield hand for some other purpose." By your theory, they should LOSE their shield abilities even if they keep their shield bonus as they used the shield arm for something OTHER than just defending with it. Or someone with improved shield bash.

How could you possibly get that from what I've said? If you get the AC bonus from a buckler, you get the ancillary bonuses from wearing the buckler. If you don't get the AC bonus from a buckler, you don't get the ancillary bonuses either.

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