| Moonheart |
I wish to build a character for the scout role in a party.
My problem is that the most common classes to scout doesn't appeal me much, so I set my choice on the monk for one reason: Dex/Wis based + Fast movement
The race could be Dusk Elf, which will provide Darkvision (useful because you don't carry a source of light when you're trying to sneak) and cancel the stealth penality when moving at full speed. (= 90ft stealth move speed without penality at level 20)
So far, it's easy, but what I have an hardest way to figure is how to make it also efficient in combat while staying 100% based on Dex and Wis...
I wish to retain Fast movement and avoid standard multiclassing (VMC is still fine)
Could some people help me with that?
| Wonderstell |
Whatever type of monk you make, remember to take the Qinggong archetype (stacks with every other archetype) and pick up Gaseous Form.
The ability to slip through keyholes and fly will come in handy as an infiltrator.
| avr |
Unchained or original monk?
If you want to do damage in combat as a monk while doing nothing much with strength then you'll need dex to damage. One way is with an agile amulet of mighty fists, another is to use something like a kama with slashing grace, still another is to take boar style and use unarmed strikes with slashing grace. The first has a cost of a +1 on that amulet, the second costs 3 feats, the last costs 4 feats.
That's just the start of being efficient in combat of course but where to go from there depends on which path you're taking. Which one appeals?
Oh, and what level range?
| Derklord |
If you want to do damage in combat as a monk while doing nothing much with strength then you'll need dex to damage.
It certainly helps, but it's not really mandatory - it's just bonus damage, after all, and a Jabbing Master build already has a lot of that.
One way is with an agile amulet of mighty fists, another is to use something like a kama with slashing grace, still another is to take boar style and use unarmed strikes with slashing grace. The first has a cost of a +1 on that amulet, the second costs 3 feats, the last costs 4 feats.
You can't flurry with Slashing Grace, so that one's out. Agile (weapon or AoMF) is the easiest way.
Alternative 1: Dervish Dance+Ascetic Style+Ascetic Form with a Versatile Design-enhanced Scimitar.Alternative 2: Two levels of the Student of Perfection prestige class (which advances most Monk class features), grabbing the Genie’s Blade ki power, and using Dervish Dance.
As written, unMonk can take the Empty Body ki power to become ethereal for a minute for 3 ki at 4th level.
| avr |
Jabbing style adds 1d6 damage to an unarmed strike vs. an opponent you've already hit with an unarmed strike that round. That's an average of 3.5 damage and it can't apply to every hit in a given round, and it isn't multiplied on a crit. It's a lot less than dex to damage on a character '100% based on Dex and Wis'.
You're right about slashing grace tho' Derklord.
Assuming an agile AoMF then (it's half the cost of a weapon so you can start being effective earlier) - jabbing style is one option for raising your damage from modest to significant. It has the disadvantage of only applying when you start within 5' of an enemy since you absolutely need a full attack to use it. Boar style works similarly. Jabbing adds a little mobility, boar style debuffs later.
Panther style is another, it's good with mobility but if your GM starts having enemies not take AoOs against you it stops working, though that in turn does allow you to move freely across the battlefield.
Pummelling style doesn't directly add damage but it helps you with DR, and pummelling charge is nice for mobility.
| Derklord |
Jabbing style adds 1d6 damage to an unarmed strike vs. an opponent you've already hit with an unarmed strike that round. That's an average of 3.5 damage and it can't apply to every hit in a given round, and it isn't multiplied on a crit. It's a lot less than dex to damage on a character '100% based on Dex and Wis'.
Er, I said Jabbing Master.
I also presume an unMonk with Flying Kick, so by the time you have Jabbing Master, you should be able to full attack most of the time.
| avr |
Jabbing master requires 6 (six!) prerequisite feats and an 8th level monk. It's not comparable. And besides that we haven't established whether this is an unchained monk yet, flying kick does only move you your fast movement bonus - 20' for an 8th level monk, while provoking AoOs. It's not a cure-all.
| Wonderstell |
@Moonheart
When you say Scout role, what kind of character are you envisioning?
For me, the Scout is an infiltrator, stealthy and/or charismatic enough to get in everywhere.
Key skills would be:
Bluff
Diplomacy
Disguise
Disable Device
Perception
Stealth
Sleight of Hand*
Use Magic Device*
*Optional
For which the monk is a poor chassis to create such a character with. Not impossible, just requiring a lot more work.
If your idea of a Scout is a simply a stealthy character, then this facilitates things.
| Moonheart |
@Moonheart
When you say Scout role, what kind of character are you envisioning?
For me, the Scout is an infiltrator, stealthy and/or charismatic enough to get in everywhere.
You surely described here an infiltrator... but for me a scout and an infiltrator are two completly different things
A scout is someone who have for a task go ahead of an armed force to spot the eventual foes waiting further of a planned road, so the armed force could be forewarned of the threat and plan a strategy to deal with it the best possible
He's not meant to get everywhere. In fact, a good scout would probably avoid to enter an ennemy camp at all, he'll just get at spotting range, and get out a spyglass to observe what's in
| Derklord |
Jabbing master requires 6 (six!) prerequisite feats and an 8th level monk. It's not comparable.
Dodge and Mobility can easily be picked up as bonus feats, so it's possible to grab the whole chain plus Weapon Finesse by 9th level on a non-human. It wouldn't be my first choice, but it's a possibility.
And besides that we haven't established whether this is an unchained monk yet, flying kick does only move you your fast movement bonus - 20' for an 8th level monk, while provoking AoOs. It's not a cure-all.
Not, it's not, but it's often enough. Mobility helps with the AoOs (and other movement would provoke as well), and at 9th level (which I talked about, by the way) it's 30ft, which in my experience is often enough.
If it's a dex-based cMonk, he can all but forget doing relevant amounds of damage, anyway.
| Wonderstell |
A scout is someone who have for a task go ahead of an armed force to spot the eventual foes waiting further of a planned road, so the armed force could be forewarned of the threat and plan a strategy to deal with it the best possible.
Oh, then it's pretty easy. Just place max ranks in Stealth/Perception and choose any of the dex-based monk builds. There's plenty.
Zen Archer and Tetori monk (agile maneuvers) to name two of the most straightforward archetypes for the vanilla monk.
| Wolin |
It's hard to argue with a level or three of Unchained rogue to go with your monk levels. Dex to damage with your unarmed strikes, plus a few dice of sneak attack on your flurry is pretty good. You even have the spin kick style strike to take advantage of that. The Ki Pool Rogue talent gives you 1.5 your wisdom to your ki pool, or if your GM allows it, the offensive defense rogue talent. Consider the minor magic talent for Message. Plus all those extra skill points and class skills go a long way.
As far as ki powers, probably go for Empty Body when you can manage it for ease of scouting, or Gaseous Form if you're chained (Because there's no reason to ever no take qinggong monk). Feather step (Qinggong) and sudden speed (Unchained) are a decent choices for a scout, too. Share Memory (Qinggong) or Abundant step (Unchained) are good 8th level powers that make sense for a scout as well.