Need help advancing a ghast and grathkoll

[Rockblood]

I'm trying to advance a ghast and grathkoll from CR 2 to CR 3 and I've tried everything. The rules on advancing a monster from CR 2 to CR 3 say that it gains 15 hp I think but there isn't a way to get exact 15 with a ghast or even a ghoul. On top of that there is no way tp bump the damage, attack, and ac like the chart says it should without straight up raising the numbers without using stat points and feats, not that I can see anyway. Anyone know how exactly to do this for a ghast and grathkoll maybe even just a ghoul and ghoul hound?

[Dave Justus]

Easiest and best way it to apply the Simple Advanced Template

Advanced Creature (CR +1)
Quick Rules: +2 on all rolls (including damage rolls) and special ability DCs; +4 to AC and CMD; +2 hp/HD."

[toastedamphibian]

Those are general guidelines, targets if you will, not requierments.

I'd personally add class levels.

1 level of Unchained Rogue, for instance.
Adding a class level gives +4/+4/+2/+2/+0 stat increases. Put the 4s in charisma (hp and save dcs) and dex (ac,attack rolls,reflex saves) and the 2s in strength (damage) and wisdom (will saves)

He also gets 780gp worth of gear. A Masterwork Composite Shortbow (strength 4) costs 675, leather armor is 10. Leaves 95 gold for arrows and general bricabrac. Thieves tools? Jewlery? Etc.

Gets a feat at 3rd, i'd go with ability focus (paralysis). Rogue gets free finesse, so change starting feat to WF claw or Power attack.

Gets trap finding, sneak attack 1d6, and weapon finesse. And 11 skill points.

Str 19, Dex 23, Con -, Int 17, Wis 20, Cha 22
Hp: 3d8+18 (31) AC: 22 (+2 armor, +2 dex increase) CMB +6, CMD +21
Attacks +8 Shortbow 1d6+4 or
+8/+8 Claw 1d6+4 and Paralysis and +8 Bite 1d6+4 and Paralysis and disease
Save DCs: Paralysis 19, Disease and Stench 17.
Skills: Bump stealth and Acrobatics to 12,perception to 11, and climb and swim to 10. Gives you 5 skillpoints to flesh out non combat abilites if you care.

Feats:Weapon Finesse, Ability Focus (Paralysis) and 1 other.

Edit: I have no idea what a grathkoll is. Typo maybe? Nothing came up on d20pfsrd.

[blahpers]

One CR? Just slap advanced simple on it. No need to make more work for yourself unless you have some specific theme in mind.

(A grathkoll is a ghoul hound from Monster Codex.)

[toastedamphibian]

Or your a lunatic like me, who adds class levels to random monsters because a stranger on the internet 'sort of almost asked'...

[Rockblood]

I was thinking of using templates to but a ghast is a ghoul with the advance template already. Are you allowed to add the same template more then once? It would work on the grathkoll which is just a ghoul hound with the giant template but I wanted to try advancing it before I gave up and just slapped the advance template on it.

I was thinking of adding class levels to the ghast at first but saw that adding a player class gives alot of bonuses to stats which a ghast already got for having the advance template. Do you think getting that many bonuses make it to powerful for CR 3? Also I'm not sure if giving the grathkoll class levels would work since its a animal turned ghoul.

If theres really no way to really advance them by the advaning monster rules I'll go with class levels on the ghast and advance template on the grathkoll thank you for the help.

[toastedamphibian]

Did you read the table right? Going from 2 to 3 only adds 10hp, right? The example says from 3 to 5 adds 25 hp, 10 from the "4c row, and 15 from the "5" row.

So... add 1 racial hd, up to 3, grab Improved Natural Attack (claws) as the level. 3 feat, and give it some 10gp leather armor.

+8 hp, +2 AC, +1 attack, +3 damage. Right in line, more or less.

Looking at the numbers, id say the rogue ghoul is just a little weak for a cr 4. If played as intelligent it easly warants a cr 4.

[Lady-J]

add 3 npc class levels if they don't have any already

[Rockblood]

Right my bad I couldn't remember if it was 10 or 15 and couldn't check at the time of posting. Where is the +3 damage coming from or do you not add to the damage because making it more likely to hit will make it deal more damage because its hitting more? The ghast is going to be intelligent since its going to be the big bad at the end of the cave tunnels the pcs were sent into to find clues. The apl is 3 and i wanted to make this a hard encounter which is a cr 5 which gives me 1,600 xp to use so I was wanting it to be a cr 3 ghast and cr 3 grathkoll both being 800 xp.

[toastedamphibian]

Improved Natrual Attack (Claws) improves his claw damage to d8's. He gets a feat at 3 hitdice.

Edit: I found the Grathkoll. Its hitpoints are lower, so give it 2 hd. Give it Improved Natural Attack as well, put its ability increase into dex, and stick it in some leather barding.

[Rockblood]

Don't you need a bab of +4 to get that feat or in times like this the gm ignores those?

[toastedamphibian]

Oh... yep. Crap.

[Rockblood]

Yea thats the trouble im really having is there really isn't anything that can raise the damage on low cr monsters that your trying to advance unless you advance them by more then 3 or 4 cr.

[toastedamphibian]

Power attack I guess then?

[Rockblood]

Yea that one should work thank you for the help on understanding all that. Most of the examples i was finding were exact number examples so it was hard to figure out what to do when you couldnt get the exact numbers.