Do Sovereign Court Characters Qualify For Taldor Vanities?

[K-kun the Insane]

This question has come up in our Lodge, but we can't seem to find an answer yes or no.
Some say yes, the faction simply renamed itself.
Some say no, Taldor was retired and replaced.

I can see the arguments from both sides. "They're the same group and even led by the same person!" "They cut ties with Taldor, why would they get Taldan titles?"

This extends to the other renamed factions as well.

Additional resources and campaign clarifications don't say anything either way, so now we come to the message-boards.

[Nefreet]

I believe it's in the Guide (I know it used to be in older versions).

Dark Archive can choose Cheliax vanities.
Liberty's Edge can choose Andoran vanities.
Scarab Sages can choose Osirion vanities.
Exchange can choose Qadiran vanities.
Sovereign Court can choose Taldor vanities.

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

All well and good except for those damned Cheliax vanities - an Imp Servitor, while passably appropriate, is not worth it for the expense in my opinion, while the others just don't translate to the Dark Archives at all. Due to the massive difference in the nature of their themes and values, I've got several Dark Archives characters now who would NEVER have pledged Cheliax Faction.

[SCPRedMage]

Nefreet wrote:

I believe it's in the Guide (I know it used to be in older versions).

It appears that the last version of the Guide that included that was version 7.0; the entire section on retiring factions was removed in version 8.0.

I don't think that leadership intended to remove this particular rule, but I think technically we need an official ruling...

[TriOmegaZero]

K-kun the Insane wrote:

This question has come up in our Lodge, but we can't seem to find an answer yes or no.

The answer is yes. The nation-based factions were not retired and all Prestige awards and boons remain valid. Use the mapping of factions for faction missions on page 12 and copied above to determine eligibility.

[GreySector]

I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:

All well and good except for those damned Cheliax vanities - an Imp Servitor, while passably appropriate, is not worth it for the expense in my opinion, while the others just don't translate to the Dark Archives at all. Due to the massive difference in the nature of their themes and values, I've got several Dark Archives characters now who would NEVER have pledged Cheliax Faction.

This is a pet peeve of mine. The faction name is Dark Archive. It is singular, not plural.

[TOZ]

Glory to the Darkive!

[Wayne Bradbury]

More like Dork Archive...

[SCPRedMage]

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:

K-kun the Insane wrote:

This question has come up in our Lodge, but we can't seem to find an answer yes or no.

The answer is yes. The nation-based factions were not retired and all Prestige awards and boons remain valid. Use the mapping of factions for faction missions on page 12 and copied above to determine eligibility.

The list on page 12 only refers to faction missions from seasons 0-5, and makes no mention of vanities or faction boons or anything else faction-related; only what (formerly prestige-granting) faction missions to give players, should the GM wish to run them for flavor.

The current version of the Guide does not include any rules to allow members of the newer factions to take any vanities from their previous incarnations; these rules seem to have been left out of the Guide when it received the major reorganization that came with version 8.0. While I think it's fairly obvious that this was an oversight and not an intentional change, I also think we can't simply assume that, and we need that actually ruled on. While you are a Venture-Captain, VOs don't actually make the rules, so we need word from the actual campaign team on this.

[TriOmegaZero]

I have 5-6 years of institutional knowledge about how the campaign has been run, and copies of the previous guides that show it working exactly that way. There is no changed text, there is omitted text. We are expected to use common sense when reading the rules, and it is nonsensical to say that because text was omitted in the latest guide that Dark Archive, Liberty's Edge, Scarab Sages, Exchange, and Sovereign Court characters can no longer have faction vanities. Until a clarification is made, hold the course.

[Nefreet]

These most recent Guides were also focused on reducing word count, and 4 year old news isn't really current anymore.

[FLite]

The rule was part of the rules explaining how to transition you character from the old faction to the new. Since it was not possible* to have a character to transition from those factions any more, the rule was irrelevant. If anything, the updated rule should have been appended to the additional resources for the books in question.

*Someone theoretically could have a character they havent played in 3-4 years, I suppose.

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

Michael Eshleman wrote:

This is a pet peeve of mine. The faction name is Dark Archive. It is singular, not plural.

My mistake, then. Thank you for correcting.

[Korolan]

Hey K-Kun and SCPRedMage!
According to an older version of the guide, (Version 6.0 according to this post) you would use the old vanities, as Steven listed!

Now, as a reminder, We are all here to work together! There is no need to be impolite when other forum goers are trying to offer assistance!

[BlackOuroboros]

Michael Eshleman wrote:

I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:

All well and good except for those damned Cheliax vanities - an Imp Servitor, while passably appropriate, is not worth it for the expense in my opinion, while the others just don't translate to the Dark Archives at all. Due to the massive difference in the nature of their themes and values, I've got several Dark Archives characters now who would NEVER have pledged Cheliax Faction.

This is a pet peeve of mine. The faction name is Dark Archive. It is singular, not plural.

Dark Archives

Dark Archives
Dark Archives

(Let's see if it works like Beetlejuice)

[SCPRedMage]

My point was that there was a specific rule in previous versions of the Guide that allowed this that has since been removed, and while it was almost certainly removed by mistake, we can't assume that without an official "oops", which has to come from someone with the authority to actual set campaign rules.

I recommend flagging this for FAQ to raise its visibility to the PFS campaign team.

[TriOmegaZero]

SCPRedMage wrote:

...we can't assume that without an official "oops"...

I absolutely can and have since the last time it came up.

I should also add that the past guide revisions have been led by VOs.

[Nathanael Love]

I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:

All well and good except for those damned Cheliax vanities - an Imp Servitor, while passably appropriate, is not worth it for the expense in my opinion, while the others just don't translate to the Dark Archives at all. Due to the massive difference in the nature of their themes and values, I've got several Dark Archives characters now who would NEVER have pledged Cheliax Faction.

And both my Hellknight and my Hellknight Signifiers are Silver Crusade. . .

[whew]

The chronicle for scenario 9-

Spoiler:

08 Birthright Betrayed (for character level 1-5)

has a boon that interacts with having "another boon or vanity that grants you a noble title in Taldor".

[Linda Zayas-Palmer]

SCPRedMage wrote:

My point was that there was a specific rule in previous versions of the Guide that allowed this that has since been removed, and while it was almost certainly removed by mistake, we can't assume that without an official "oops", which has to come from someone with the authority to actual set campaign rules.

I recommend flagging this for FAQ to raise its visibility to the PFS campaign team.

It was removed from the guide by mistake, and will be put back in the next version.

[TriOmegaZero]

Thank you for the confirmation!

[SCPRedMage]

Indeed, thanks!