Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, PF Special Edition, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Hey folks I'm looking to run a society module for 4 people who have never ever played an RPG. I was wondering what the best one to start them off with would be? Any and all suggestions would be great. Im looking for something that would have a good balance of RP/skills and Combat.
Thank you.
First comment: Either the Wounded Wisp or "Master of the Fallen Fortress."
Second comment: I'm not sure that Pathfinder Society Organized Play is necessarily the right first experience with role-playing games. There are restrictions on how the game is played that might not be the best for brand new players. (For example: let's say the party cleric doesn't understand how channelling positive energy works, and accidentally heals enemies in combat. Can you just ignore that? Not in PFS. Can the party rogue pick-pocket from her comrades?)
Good luck to your players, and may everybody have a great time!!
I think We Be Goblins and We B4 Goblins are pretty great for this. Plus, since the Pregens are already built, they don’t have to worry about building characters! The downside is if you don’t think they would have fun playing Goblins.
One of the quests will work very well. They generally contain one 'talk' and one 'fight' encounter.
As they are episodical, you can take your time going over all the rules. No priblem if it takes them very long to get trough one part.
I agree with the suggestion of Quests for the reasons mentioned.
I would recommend Honor's Echo. It's pretty straight forward (until the final RP encounter).
I also agree that Master of the Fallen Fortress is as straight forward, old-school RPG as you can get, but it can be a bit rough.
I disagree that Organized Play is wrong as a first experience with role-playing. Maybe bad if it was 4 random people who decided to walk into the local book store and sat down with a random GM 30 minutes before playing a Tier 5-9 with pregens, but if the GM is prepared for the on-the-fly rules-learning, then it's no worse and may be better than a random home game.
House of Harmonious Wisdom is a pretty well written quest series to introduce people to how things work, and since earch quest is on a different day new players won't have to worry much about running out of abilities.
First comment: Either the Wounded Wisp or "Master of the Fallen Fortress."
Second comment: I'm not sure that Pathfinder Society Organized Play is necessarily the right first experience with role-playing games. There are restrictions on how the game is played that might not be the best for brand new players. (For example: let's say the party cleric doesn't understand how channelling positive energy works, and accidentally heals enemies in combat. Can you just ignore that? Not in PFS. Can the party rogue pick-pocket from her comrades?)
Good luck to your players, and may everybody have a great time!!
No, don't ignore it Chris, but you can be helpful in PFS. Knowing they are brand new, you can teach them the rules as you play.
Player: I channel to heal.
GM: Are you sure you want to do that? If you do, you'll heal the enemies and some that are unconscious may become conscious again.
Player: Oh, but my friend is almost dead.
GM: Well if you move over here <point at position on map> you can heal most of your friends without healing any badguys, and later on, you can take the Selective Channel feat.
Player: Thanks! I'll do that!
My suggestions of scenarios that include lots of the things that require versatility, thinking outside the box, being prepared, etc. that don't have to be horribly detrimental to living if they don't go quite right include:
Cyphermage Dilemma
Nightmarch of Kalkamedes
Horn of Aroden
The Confirmation
First Steps, Part 1: In Service to Lore
Wounded Wisp
The Consortium Compact
On any of the above, however, it will take a good GM to make sure it doesn't become deadly when the newer players invariably make a mistake.
We Be Goblins is what caused my wife to fall in love with playing the game. And I had a lady who'd never played before say after I ran this at Gen Con one year, "Thanks, that was fun, I didn't think I'd like RPGs, but now I do."
I recommend the Quests - Here is what I do *not* recommend.
Stay away from the season 9 scenarios.
Here is why:
They are way too skill focused.
I'm an experienced player and even I was taken aback by the number of things I couldn't participate in. In one of them, the one I was most excited to do, the combats were over so quickly I never got to make more than a single attack. I was spending most of my time navigating difficult terrain and trying to close distance.
So, in one, for example, there were 2 fights, one was 3 rounds, one was 1 round.
There were a at least 23 skill checks.
This is fine if you are a Wizard as Int gives you tons of skill points, or a Rogue who gets tons of skill points, or a Bard...
If you are a Paladin, for example?
Diplomacy, Religion, or Perception.
That was it.
You don't want a player playing a Paladin/Fighter type to not be able to contribute and who starts thinking that their class sucks because they can't do anything.
So whatever you run, make sure it has a mix of combat and skill challenges. Remember. Combat is something every single class can do. Skills are not. Especially skills that cannot be used untrained.
I recommend the Quests - Here is what I do *not* recommend.
Stay away from the season 9 scenarios.
Here is why:
They are way too skill focused.
I'm an experienced player and even I was taken aback by the number of things I couldn't participate in. In one of them, the one I was most excited to do, the combats were over so quickly I never got to make more than a single attack. I was spending most of my time navigating difficult terrain and trying to close distance.
So, in one, for example, there were 2 fights, one was 3 rounds, one was 1 round.
There were a at least 23 skill checks.
This is fine if you are a Wizard as Int gives you tons of skill points, or a Rogue who gets tons of skill points, or a Bard...
If you are a Paladin, for example?
Diplomacy, Religion, or Perception.
That was it.
You don't want a player playing a Paladin/Fighter type to not be able to contribute and who starts thinking that their class sucks because they can't do anything.
So whatever you run, make sure it has a mix of combat and skill challenges. Remember. Combat is something every single class can do. Skills are not. Especially skills that cannot be used untrained.
HWalsh, I would like to respectfully disagree with many of your statements above. But this is just my view - just my opinion, so feel free to ignore me (many people do).
please excuse my rant.:
In the past, quite often this game of ours has been presented by some players/judges/writers as a "Combat Simulation" - a game of combats that are connected (sometimes poorly) by some sort of story. This view is often held by persons who enjoy the combat and ... not so much the other parts. So they will often just wait thru those "dull" parts to get to the "important" parts of the game - the "fun stuff".
I on the other hand DON'T enjoy the combat so much. And so I often run skill focused PCs (Fighters, Clerics, and even Paladins), and sit back during the combats to let the other players have their fun. Waiting to get to the parts of the game I where I find my fun gaming.
Guys, this game is not all about the combat (IMHO). It's not just a dungeon crawl - where you go from room to room fighting monsters. (though some Judges present it that way, and some writers seem to create scenarios that are just that.) (To me) It's also about the Rogue who insures we don't fall in that pit, about the fighter who just happens to also be a carpenter - because he likes to build things, not just brake them. It's about my matchmaker dwarf cleric (who "wasted" skill points on Profession Matchmaker) trying to fix up the barbarian PC with "this little lady down in the Puddles district, you should meet her!" It's about a bunch of people sitting around a table having fun (each trying to do it their own way).
One of the worst things I ever heard at a table (because it often seems to be true) is when an "old hand" explained to a "young kid" that he should put his skill points into combat skills like acrobatics - cause the Judge is going to give you the other information anyway. "If you need to find the bandit camp, just wonder around in the woods - the Judge wants to play too, and the only way we get a fight is when we find the bandits". (Sarcasm alert: Kind of made me feel good about my Divination Wizard, with all my "wasted" ranks in investigation and RP skills). And to him this game was all about the fight.
I can recall another discussion I heard at the game table a long time ago. A Max Damage player was complaining that in his last scenario they had "wasted" almost 30 minutes "chatting up the bar-maid" and had cut into his "fight time". I resisted pointing out that he had just taken 30 minutes "dancing with the mooks" (and going thru only 3 combat rounds to do it) and had cut into my bar-maid time. The reason I resisted commenting to him was, it wouldn't have done any good. To him, this game is all about rolling dice and splatting monsters. The challanges he sees are all combat related. All the story that connects the combats is just filler, the un-important parts.
Where as to me, if the other players can kill the beasties in 2 melee rounds, it'll give me more bar-maid time. And I'll try my darnedest to ensure we find those fights for them! I'll run the investigator that does the Gather Info rolls, that removes the Traps that warns the BBEG, that ensures we get the right guy and get paid in full for it. But then I would have as much fun if the Judge just said after Init is rolled "Everyone just mark off 20% of you HP and 10% of you consumables and we'll hand-wave the rest of this encounter". After all, some Judges do that to the RP encounters (even having the term "RP encounter" vs. "Combat encounter" makes my mind hurt - like they are two different things. They are two parts of the same thing, the story...).
Sorry - I shouldn't have been ranting at you... but you sort of hit a nerve.
Some suggestions to improve non-skill PCs:
here's a few items you might try to get you some more "play time" during the non-combat portions of the scenarios... please realize that most of these are Judge Dependent, and if the person running the table doesn't want to let them work... there is very little you can do about it. so... YMMV.
1) Favored Class bonus points can be put in skill points. For example, a Cleric with INT as a dump stat can still have 3 skill ranks per level... A human Paladin with an INT of 10 can still get 4 skill points each level... Most players put these points into HP, which always makes me wonder. If we get 6 HP (plus CON) per level and only 2 skill points (plus INT) - why do we put the favored class point in the LARGER one?
2) When you an, spread a skill point or two into class skills that don't have any... For example, Paladins have 10 skills (not counting Crafts) - Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (nobility) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
One rank in Kn (nobility) gives them a roll. One rank in Kn (religion) will let them ID undead, and at times (outside of combat) even allows them to aid the skill monkey at the table. Kind of like when the skills guy aids the Paladin on an attack in combat, because he can't hit the monster otherwise...
3) Having a little skill in something will let us assist/aid another player in making the primary skill check. Heck, it can even sometimes be done for skills that are in the negatives... This can even be done for most skills untrained... Using the example of a Paladin. Most of the Diplomacy checks at the table should be at least assisted by a Paladin - even if they have no ranks in it. "I stand behind the Diplomancer, providing 'status' to his words with my presence and force of personality. I don't say anything, I'm just there - the embodiment of Law and Good in the form of a Sword of the Dawnflower." This gets us some play time, and often can be the difference between success and failure in skill challenges.
4) If the player feels the need to push up his skill numbers - they can buy MW tools for some of the skills. I've seen a Paladin who had enough ability in "Heal" to do the "check the body to see what killed them... Large Monster Bites? or Disease?". This cost them one rank, plus WIS, plus Class Skill, plus 2 for a MW tool (50 gp for a Textbook on Examining Bodies) and it gave info on the monsters ahead. "yeah, looks like the goblin died of spider bites...".
anyway - sorry for the rant, hope the suggestions help... or at least make up for the rant.
Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, PF Special Edition, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Thank you all for the help. I think Im going to run one of the quests and see how it goes. I've been GMing for a long time with really really experienced players so brand new people scare me.
Another thought that was mentioned what do people thing about me building 5 or 6 characters for the players and just let them pick that rather then go through character creation. I know the new players fairly well and think I could build characters that they like as well as make them all work for the quest. If they don't like them then allow them to change after the fact. Is this a good idea or do people think that the creation is part of the fun/lets you get attached to the character you are about to play.
I think that character creation can be part of the fun. If they have strong ideas about what they want to play, feel free to offer assistance, but let them build their own.
If they don’t have strong ideas about what they want to play... Why not just bring along a pack of well built pregens? The ACG pregens are excellent. Do you know which quest series that you will be running? If you are doing House of Harmonious Wisdom, the following pregens speak Tien: the kineticist, the samurai, the ninja and the witch. There may be others, but those were the ones that I noticed. Having at least one tien speaking pregen in the mix can be helpful. (Although having none can be amusing.)
I think that character creation can be part of the fun. If they have strong ideas about what they want to play, feel free to offer assistance, but let them build their own.
If they don’t have strong ideas about what they want to play... Why not just bring along a pack of well built pregens? The ACG pregens are excellent. Do you know which quest series that you will be running? If you are doing House of Harmonious Wisdom, the following pregens speak Tien: the kineticist, the samurai, the ninja and the witch. There may be others, but those were the ones that I noticed. Having at least one tien speaking pregen in the mix can be helpful. (Although having none can be amusing.)
Hmm
And if you want some really off the wall "pregens" you can see what happens if you ask the forums to submit some interesting L1 characters :)
