Animated Objects / Summon Spells, Canvassing For Opinion

[ID-TheDemonOfElru]

Hi there!

So I have a bit of a conundrum (well not quite), it’s understood that party members do not get XP for vanquishing beings summoned by Summon Monster/Animated Objects/Summon Nature’s Ally, etc. That XP is factored into the CR of the caster/user of said ability, it is their defeat that nets the experience points.

That being said. Here is the scenario and I want to know what people would do in a similar situation.

The party is going through a clutter filled of room filled with clutter and junk that is being “Animated” as per “Animate Objects” of a creature known as a Ravid (a 3.5 beast, medium serpentine dragon creature that has the ability at will), here is the being in question.

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Ravid
Size/Type: Medium Outsider (Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 3d8+3 (16 hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), fly 60 ft. (perfect)
Armor Class: 25 (+15 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 25
Base Attack +3. CMB +4 CMD 14
Attack: Tail slap +4 melee (1d6+1 plus positive energy) or tail touch +4 melee touch (positive energy)
Full Attack: Tail slap +4 melee (1d6+1 plus positive energy) and claw +2 melee (1d4 plus positive energy); or tail touch +4 melee touch (positive energy) and claw touch +2 melee touch (positive energy)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Positive energy lash, animate objects
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., flight, immunity to fire
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +3, Will +4
Abilities: Str 13, Dex 10, Con 13, Int 7, Wis 12, Cha 14
Skills: Escape Artist +6, Listen +7, Move Silently +6, Spot +7, Stealth +7, Survival +7
Feats: Improved Initiative, Multiattack
Environment: Positive Energy Plane
Organization: Solitary (1 plus at least 1 animated object)
Challenge Rating: 5
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 4 HD (Medium); 5-9 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: —
Ravids are creatures from the Positive Energy Plane. These bizarre entities imbue creatures with energy by their touch and animate lifeless objects around them. Ravids that make their way to the Material Plane wander about aimlessly, followed by the objects to which they have given life.

A ravid is about 7 feet long and weighs about 75 pounds.

Combat
Ravids fight only in self-defense. A ravid itself is not very powerful but is always accompanied by at least one animated object that defends it.

Positive Energy Lash (Su)
A ravid can make a touch attack or hit with a claw or tail slap attack to infuse a target with positive energy. The energy produces an unpleasant tingle in living creatures, and against undead foes (even incorporeal ones) it deals 2d10 points of damage.

Animate Objects (Su)
Once per round, a random object within 20 feet of a ravid animates as though by the spell animate objects (caster level 20th). These objects defend the ravid to the best of their ability, but the ravid isn’t intelligent enough to employ elaborate tactics with them.

Flight (Su)
A ravid can cease or resume flight as a free action. A ravid that loses this ability falls and can perform only a single action (either a move action or an attack action) each round.

Feats
A ravid has the Multiattack feat even through it does not have the requisite three natural weapons.

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So here is the scenario, the Ravid is hidden in something akin to a false wall behind in the room, using “peep” holes to view the party. The room is also quite dark. Random objects begin animating once per round, and begin annoying the party (bumping into them, following them around, etc) and the party then fights them. Assuming they don’t notice the eyes in the painting and so on, assume that the party literally fight their way through dozens of Animated Objects before there is nothing left to animate literally. Because the fight was ongoing every round they didn’t have time to take 10 on Perception and they didn’t think to even make Perception tests, given they had their hands full at the time.

So they uncover the Ravid once all the objects are gone and they search the room - it has nowhere left to hide once the secret wall panel is discovered, and whatever reason they don’t see the funny side of it’s prank and kill it. They only earn a CR 5 since the creature was using its innate ability and is factored into its challenge rating.

The players understandably are very upset that they wasted resources fighting all manner of Animated Objects and resources and get no XP for these.

So do you A) give no experience and have upset players, B) give some experience but not full value for the Animated Objects or do you C) give full experience but then have to deal with this expectation for getting XP every time a summoned monster pops up.

What option would you go with and why? Just curious

[*Thelith]

You can boost the CR for having favorable positioning, in this case, very favorable positioning. That covers it not being because it was summoned but because it was a terrain bonus. Maybe CR 7 or more if you feel like it.

[blahpers]

It's a CR 5 encounter going strictly by the book. As *Thelith mentioned, you can certainly boost the CR on account of the challenge having favorable conditions. But the players should understand that wasting resources fighting animated objects is no different than having a sorcerer hiding in the wall summoning creatures until she runs out of spell slots. I mean, other than the fact that the ravid can just keep doing it and doing it until there aren't any undestroyed, unattended objects within 20'. Which is barking mad, I might add, tempered only by the fact that it you can't fit a lot of big objects in that sort of space and that the ravid is supposed to be too stupid to use elaborate tactics. (I would have considered the ravid too stupid to use the tactics you employed, but that's a matter of what one GM considers "elaborate tactics".)

Also, you don't have to take time to make a Perception test; the PCs should have gotten passive Perception checks whenever the ravid moved or otherwise acted in any manner that would have necessitated a Stealth check to remain unobserved. They might have failed those checks, of course, on account of being a bit distracted by the table and chairs trying to beat them into a pulp.

[Pizza Lord]

Normally, they get XP for the CR 5 encounter. The ability to animate objects, one per round, is factored into the creature's CR. As mentioned, you can give extra XP (or reduce it) for a situation stacked in favor of one side or the other. For instance, if the room was an armory, so all the animated objects were deadlier, tougher (being metal), etc. than would be expected in an 'average' encounter.

If we assumed the encounter was designed to hinder the PCs, to slow them down or actually frighten them away (rather than just being a mysterious or odd room to pass through) and they had succeeded in passing through the room, never having discovered the ravid, they would still be entitled to XP for the encounter. Should it be for a CR 5 encounter? That might depend on the ravid's purpose. If it were trying to stop them from passing by, then full points. If the ravid was just holed-up and wanting to be left alone, and the animated objects (which just animate on their own, unless it suppresses it presumably) just attack and hinder everyone, then it might be less for a party able to pass by (since the ravid wouldn't be fighting to the fullness of its abilities). Obviously, if they uncover it and defeat it, that's a different story, whatever the creature's intention (unless it was really just a prank, which they misunderstood, because the creature wasn't really a threat). They should just get a portion, in that case.

Reading your scenario, it seems that there was no threat, just a dark room with things bumping (harmlessly) into the PCs or just following them around. The PCs decided to just start trashing things, went looking for the cause, and killed it. In that case, I would say no XP (but again I am only going by what I can read). If the ravid wasn't a threat or actual opponent (the objects are just animated and spooked the PCs), that's no different than killing a non-threat or noncombatant.

I am not letting PCs gain full XP for killing townsfolk (even high-level ones) because they guessed wrong and thought one was up to something, even if it was able to capably defend itself once they started assaulting it, any more than I would award full XP for a sick or ill opponent or one obviously restricted below its abilities. If the PCs kill a Trick-or-Treating kid in a really well-made red dragon costume, I don't care whether they had to waste valuable resources: their biggest, baddest spells and potions buffing up... I am not giving them full XP for doing it (for even a 1st-level commoner) if it wasn't a threat to them. Wouldn't do it for shooting arrows into a zoo, where the animal is caged, even if it's a really dangerous or tough animal.

So, again in closing, what the XP for this encounter is debatable but, as pointed out, typically such things are factored into the creature's CR.

[Lady-J]

exp only for the main creature none for the animated objects, the thing wasn't trying to kill them it was just trying to bugg them its their own fault if they blow every single spell slot and daily resource fighting tea pots and coat hangers