Non-magical things that need will saves


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Aside from spells, spell-like abilities, supernatural abilities, and other magical stuff, what non-magical things require will saving throws?


Particle_Man wrote:
Aside from spells, spell-like abilities, supernatural abilities, and other magical stuff, what non-magical things require will saving throws?

The Sanity and Madness stuff (Game Mastery Guide) has some non-magical will saves. Most things that require will saves are magical in nature, however.


The intimidate skill unlock springs to mind.


Vigilante Social Talents wrote:
Mockingbird (Ex): The vigilante can mimic almost any sort of voice, or even animal calls and sound effects, and he can throw his voice at a distance. This functions similarly to a combination of the ghost sound, ventriloquism, and vocal alteration spells. A vigilante must be at least 5th level to choose this talent.

It's (Ex), so it's non-magical, but the emulated spells requite saving throws.


Rajnish Umbra, Shadow Caller wrote:
Vigilante Social Talents wrote:
Mockingbird (Ex): The vigilante can mimic almost any sort of voice, or even animal calls and sound effects, and he can throw his voice at a distance. This functions similarly to a combination of the ghost sound, ventriloquism, and vocal alteration spells. A vigilante must be at least 5th level to choose this talent.
It's (Ex), so it's non-magical, but the emulated spells requite saving throws.

Vocal Alteration is actually a fortitude save, to resist being forced to sound like Alvin the chipmunk if it is cast on you (I believe that is the only reason to take this spell). The other two are Will (disbelief) and since this talent is not in fact an illusion, I would assume that they would not apply, and the functions similarly is only meant to let you know what sort of sounds you can make, not how it can be defeated. As far as I can tell, their is no way to save against this ability or realize that is false sounds.


You may think so. Others disagree.

Nothing prevents Ex-abilities from having will saving throws.
Nothing prevents mundane, non-magical illusions (as ghost sound and ventriloquism certainly are in this case) from requiring will saves.
The spells these abilities are based on require will saves.

Some GMs may rule differently, but I'd say "similarly to" includes will saves.

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