Can you use free actions outside your turn?

[Bigguyinblack]

A lot of people are saying you can't use free actions outside your turn.

From the CRB.

Quote:

Free Action: Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM.

By that it is up to the GM.

CRB FAQ from 3 years ago.

Quote:

Free Actions: Can you take free actions during an attack of opportunity? For instance, can you use the Grab, Trip, Pull, or Push universal monster rules after hitting with an attack of opportunity, since they require free actions and free actions can’t be used off-turn? What about Rock Catching? That seems like it could only work off-turn.

While you can’t take most free actions off your turn, Grab, Trip, Pull, Push, and Rock Catching’s free actions can all be used off-turn. This will be reflected in future errata.

Either that eratta never came or it was erattad to be up to the GM.

A lot of abilities can be used as a free action on attack and there are ways to attack outside your turn. Mostly via aoos.

But I'm not reading it as a clear "No you can't." despite most people saying so. It would be nice if we could get a more concrete answer. Or at least an update of the things that can be done as a free action during an aoo.

[Saldiven]

I believe there is a general allowance to take a free action any time that you are otherwise legally allowed to take another action, but I cannot put my finger on that right now....

[voideternal]

You can't use free actions outside your turn unless otherwise specified.

Here are some citations:

Combat, Speak wrote:

Speak

In general, speaking is a free action that you can perform even when it isn't your turn...

Combat, Swift Actions wrote:

...You can take a swift action anytime you would normally be allowed to take a free action.

Combat, Immediate Actions wrote:

... However, unlike a swift action, an immediate action can be performed at any time—even if it's not your turn...

Readying an Action wrote:

Readying an Action: You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action.

Under the (false) assumption that you can take any free action outside your turn, the above quotes are absurd. Additionally, free actions include actions such as dropping prone, dropping objects, releasing grapple, etc, are significant game-changing actions if they can be taken out-of-turn.

Thus, by absurdity, you cannot use free actions outside your turn.

[Bigguyinblack]

"While you can’t take most free actions off your turn, Grab, Trip, Pull, Push, and Rock Catching’s free actions can all be used off-turn. This will be reflected in future errata."

Clearly not that absurd. There are several game-changing effects that are free actions that can be done out of turn. But that list is old, There may be more by now.

[bbangerter]

Bigguyinblack wrote:

Clearly not that absurd.

What void meant was that the default rule is free actions can only be taken during your turn. If the default rule was that you could take a free action whenever you wanted, than those things he quoted above wouldn't make any sense.

If a specific rule (rules on speaking off turn) or FAQ (FAQ on trip, grab, etc) allows the free action outside of your turn, then it is of course allowed outside of turn. The fact that these exceptions need to be called out is proof that the default is you can't take the free actions outside of your turn.

[2bz2p]

With no name calling or insults....

An Immediate Action is the only action you can take outside your turn. Some Immediate actions cost you the use of a swift action on your actual turn, most do not.

I blame Attack of Opportunity for the confusion because it was written before Immediate Action was given a name and liberally uses the word "free" in the description. AOO is an Immediate action, as is casting the spell Feather Fall. They are not free actions, which occur on your turn.

[Lost Ohioian]

Maybe I've missed something but an AoO is not an immediate action. If it was you'd lose your swift action on the following round.

[Hugo Rune]

The RAW states that, with a few exceptions, a free action can only be taken on your turn. I believe that the RAI definition of turn probably has some latitude and/or some free actions are also immediate actions.

[Dave Justus]

The basic 'rule' seems to me to be that with the exception of speaking, you can't take a free action outside of your turn UNLESS it is part of/related to/etc. some other action that was intiated outside your turn.

So if you can AoO with a bow, you can also nock an arrow.
If you can make an attack with the grab feature you can also use grab.

Basically, these sort of free actions are initiated by some other action (and really in the rules they should probably be referred to as 'not an action' rather than a free action, as it is the other thing happening that is really the 'action' involved.

[voideternal]

Dave Justus wrote:

The basic 'rule' seems to me to be that with the exception of speaking, you can't take a free action outside of your turn UNLESS it is part of/related to/etc. some other action that was intiated outside your turn.

So if you can AoO with a bow, you can also nock an arrow.
If you can make an attack with the grab feature you can also use grab.

Basically, these sort of free actions are initiated by some other action (and really in the rules they should probably be referred to as 'not an action' rather than a free action, as it is the other thing happening that is really the 'action' involved.

Slight clarification - nocking an arrow is correctly labeled as 'Not an Action' per RAW. It is not a Free Action.

Combat, Action Types wrote:

Not an Action: Some activities are so minor that they are not even considered free actions. They literally don't take any time at all to do and are considered an inherent part of doing something else, such as nocking an arrow as part of an attack with a bow.

[Jurassic Pratt]

voideternal wrote:

Dave Justus wrote:

The basic 'rule' seems to me to be that with the exception of speaking, you can't take a free action outside of your turn UNLESS it is part of/related to/etc. some other action that was intiated outside your turn.

So if you can AoO with a bow, you can also nock an arrow.
If you can make an attack with the grab feature you can also use grab.

Basically, these sort of free actions are initiated by some other action (and really in the rules they should probably be referred to as 'not an action' rather than a free action, as it is the other thing happening that is really the 'action' involved.

Slight clarification - nocking an arrow is correctly labeled as 'Not an Action' per RAW. It is not a Free Action.

Combat, Action Types wrote:

Not an Action: Some activities are so minor that they are not even considered free actions. They literally don't take any time at all to do and are considered an inherent part of doing something else, such as nocking an arrow as part of an attack with a bow.

However, drawing the arrow is.

CRB on Draw or Sheath a Weapon wrote:

Drawing ammunition for use with a ranged weapon (such as arrows, bolts, sling bullets, or shuriken) is a free action.

As a side note, the fact that snapshot had to get an FAQ saying you could draw the arrow as part of taking the AoO suggests that you can't take free actions except on your own turn unless you're told otherwise in a specific ability.