| Taason the Black |
Half Elf so can get the Exotic Weap Prof as free feat if forgo the addition +2 stat at make up.
But that also means no racial feat for human. GM is calling for Elven game.
Going Paladin with VMC Cavalier Order of the Star irregardless. That will eat up another 3-4 feats?
Pros of Fauchard: Reach, trip, more overall damage due to the increased crit ranged especially if stacked with Keen or Improved Crit.
Pros of GS: No additional feats. Pretty close damage before keen or IC.
MUCH BETTER CHANCE OF UPGRADES IN TREASURE LOOT. Can go with additional +2 to stats racial.
Cons of Fauchard: Eats up racial stat + min of 1 add feat (improved trip). Much less likely to find in treasure loot
Cons of GS: Less overall damage, just not as cool
Starting lv 1 or 2 so having the clams to enchant wont be for a bit.
Thoughts? Thank you in advance!
| lemeres |
No, the + min of additional feats is 'combat reflexes'. Trip is its own special school of thought of what you can do with reach.
The simple path is just to get AoOs, giving you a bunch of extra damage and serving as a living obstacle- which can be don just by the threat of your attacks (much easier if you have a fortuitous weapon, which can get 2 attacks off for the same trigger 1/round; mini full attack).
When combined with lunge, you can also get something of a pseudo pouce- you can full attack anything up to 20' away.
Overall, reach can be a much more powerful form of 2handing, since it brings additional effects, even if you ignore the trip stuff.
No idea on whether loot is a major concern for your table. Taht can vary based on waht GM allows to drop, and the extent of crafting allowed/used by the party.
| blahpers |
If you're relying on treasure drops to get direct upgrades to your weapon of choice, your level of pain is going to be highly dependent on how your GM determines treasure drops. Random treasure allocation is painful to weapon specialists in Pathfinder. You basically have to expect to sell everything and buy what you need--and be pleasantly surprised if you happen to find something you can use right off the bat. Some GMs bend probability a bit to accommodate their characters' specific talents, and that's fine too. Talk to your GM about your hopes for the character and see how your expectations measure up with those of your GM.
<aside>
Questions like this are why I have strong reservations about Pathfinder's emphasis on weapon specialization and why I've championed means to develop weapon-master archetypes that reward breadth over depth. In the current environment . . . well, there's always retraining if it doesn't work out.
</aside>
| lemeres |
Also, the fact that you can't get fauchards doesn't mean you 'have' to go with a greatsword.
Reach in and of itself is a fantastic ability that gives tactics and extra damager for a two hander, often making up for slight differences in stats. There are about 10 different reach weapons, so if you aren't picky, then it is more than possible to get at least something good.
Simply put- throw a rock, and you are more likely to hit a polearm than a half decent sword. Even if the loot was only a longspear (which should be exceptionally common- if not one of the most common after light stuff like daggers).... I would at least be inclined to say 'Well, it is still a reach weapon'.
| SmiloDan RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
Go with Fauchard. You get Greatsword proficiency for free, so you might as well carry one as your spare weapon (once you can afford it).
Are you taking Fey Foundling at 1st level? Power Attack or Combat Reflexes at 5th? Improved Critical or keen weapon at 9th?
Also, remember you can get Divine Bond on your weapon (instead of a mount) at 5th level, so that will help with enchanting your weapon.
Also, I'm pretty sure Exotic Weapon replaces Skill Focus, unless there is a way to replace Skill Focus with +2 to a stat...
| Lucy_Valentine |
Going Paladin with VMC Cavalier Order of the Star irregardless. That will eat up another 3-4 feats?
Pros of Fauchard: Reach, trip, more overall damage due to the increased crit ranged especially if stacked with Keen or Improved Crit.
Pros of GS: No additional feats. Pretty close damage before keen or IC.
The trip property of the fauchard is irrelevant unless you're going to be tripping, dragging, or repositioning. But you're a paladin with VMC, so you have no spare feats, ever. That means tripping isn't realistically going to be part of your standard repertoire. You might pull it off against humanoids you outreach, especially if you can get someone to buff you with Enlarge Person, but that's about it.
The "more damage overall for the better crit range" is only really true when you're smiting. And you're not smiting all the time, though it is nice when you do. If this was all you really cared about, there's a martial weapon (albeit an eastern weapon, so consult you gm) called a nodachi that has the same damage profile.
The biggest difference here is reach vs not-reach, and the question of fighting style. Do you want to have a dex mod, a reach weapon, and L1 Combat Reflexes so you create an aura of pain around you with AoOs, or would you rather take L1 Power Attack and just hit one person really hard? Personally, I would go with the former if I could fit the dex mod into the build, but both are fine. Also, as a pretty important point, you don't need a fauchard to do a reach build. Sure, it's technically the best, but the differences are not large. It's not like a glaive-guisarme or a bardiche are bad.
Also, I'm pretty sure Exotic Weapon replaces Skill Focus, unless there is a way to replace Skill Focus with +2 to a stat...
There's an option to take +2 (stat of your choice) and +2 cha, but IIRC you have to ditch all your other racial options, so you lose the skill focus and hence can't swap it.
| lemeres |
The biggest difference here is reach vs not-reach, and the question of fighting style. Do you want to have a dex mod, a reach weapon, and L1 Combat Reflexes so you create an aura of pain around you with AoOs, or would you rather take L1 Power Attack and just hit one person really hard? Personally, I would go with the former if I could fit the dex mod into the build, but both are fine. Also, as a pretty important point, you don't need a fauchard to do a reach build. Sure, it's technically the best, but the differences are not large. It's not like a glaive-guisarme or a bardiche are bad.
Well, I wouldn't say any reach weapon (or at least a spear/polearm variety) is 'bad'. Because you are still a 2 hander- you can still use power attack to smack things in the head.
You might have some tactical considerations... but those get less important if you grab lunge (since you can smack things from far enough away that you preserve the right to be a CIRCLE OF PAIN, even when you mostly focus on being a 2 hander). The only real downside is that you don't play quite as nice with the common buff- enlarge person (because of the doughnut problem, that makes it hard to be a straight 2 hander that smacks things).
But personally, I always thought long arm was a better buff anyway- just a straight buff to reach, no size based bonuses/penalties. Enlarge person is only better when you do maneuver stuff.
It might be a bit troublesome build wise as a paladin... particular a VMC one. A 'good' reach build has power attack, combat reflexes, and lunge. As mentioned- this build has no room for feats. Also, reach tends to do well with at least 14 dex (most of my 'half caster' builds have 16/14/14/14 stats anyway; you can also go with slightly more dex friendly heavy armor).
| lemeres |
Yes was definitely planning on Fey Foundling at 1. Wis primary stat. After this advice, will probably dump the trip due to lack of feats. Man that is one starved feat build!
Oh, well then, definitely abandon reach if you are also going VMC. Since you aren't human, you have no room to get this working until mid levels.
Heck, you can't even get normal greatsword use to work right until level 5. You'd have to wait until level 9 just to get the barest bones reach build to work (power attack+combat reflexes). And then level 13 to get decent at that.
| SmiloDan RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
I've never seen a reach-build in a long term campaign. The closest I've seen was when I ran a reach cleric in 3.5 for a few sessions, which had some 3.5 reserve feats and divine feats, too, just to test those out, since I never get to play 3.5 anymore.
Do you often get multiple AoOs per round? Can a reach build still work without Combat Reflexes?
| lemeres |
I've never seen a reach-build in a long term campaign. The closest I've seen was when I ran a reach cleric in 3.5 for a few sessions, which had some 3.5 reserve feats and divine feats, too, just to test those out, since I never get to play 3.5 anymore.
Do you often get multiple AoOs per round? Can a reach build still work without Combat Reflexes?
It is more like a deterrent than anything else.
If you only have one AoO, then the GM can throw a single minor mook and eat up your AoOs. But if you have 3, then that is enough that it is logistically hard to justify trying to run you dry.
I guess you could still go around as a regular 2 hander if you didn't grab Combat reflexes. But you aren't going to be much of a reach threat unless you can continue to threaten.
Also, you can get 2 AoOs for the same act now. The fortuitous weapon property (a mere +1 property) lets you get in a second AoO for the same action. It is at BAB-5, and only 1/round... but that is a mini full attack with a 2 handed weapon. Enough damage to take a decent chunk out of the first idiot that crosses you. But it still eats up a second AoO, so you need at least 12 dex to use it well.