Spectral Hand is incorporeal, and is making touch attacks, so both Shield and Mage Armor would apply since a Wraith or other such creature making touch attacks would have to deal with Mage Armor and Shield.
Does the spell mage armor or shield hinder (by raising the armor class) a touch spell delivered by a spectral hand spell, or are you still only having to hit the touch armor class of the target?
mage armor provides an armor bonus to AC. Armor bonuses don't apply to touch AC. The exception being touch attacks from incorporeal sources.
shield provides a shield bonus to AC. Shield bonuses don't apply to touch AC. The exception being touch attacks from incorporeal sources.
spectral hand says "The hand is incorporeal and thus cannot be harmed by normal weapons." Since both mage armor and shield are force effects which repel incorporeal touches, they do increase the AC you need to hit.
Yes, but aren't both MageArmor and Shield Force Effects and are therefore specifically applied to touch AC? (Versus Incorpreal Touch attacks specifically)
Mage Armor provides an armor bonus, which is ignored by touch attacks.
Shield provides a shield bonus, which is ignored by touch attacks.
Spectral Hand makes touch attacks, and so ignores all bonuses to AC from armor, natural armor, and shield.
Incorporeal Touch attacks must apply force effects to AC even though they would normally ignore shield and armor bonuses.
Spectral Hand is not listed as an Incorporeal Touch attack, but as a regular touch attack, so Incorporeal Touch attack rules do not apply.
Mage Armor provides an armor bonus, which is ignored by touch attacks.
Shield provides a shield bonus, which is ignored by touch attacks.
Spectral Hand makes touch attacks, and so ignores all bonuses to AC from armor, natural armor, and shield.Incorporeal Touch attacks must apply force effects to AC even though they would normally ignore shield and armor bonuses.
Spectral Hand is not listed as an Incorporeal Touch attack, but as a regular touch attack, so Incorporeal Touch attack rules do not apply.
It doesn't have to be specifically listed as an incorporeal touch attack. All attacks an incorporeal creature make pass though armor, but not force effects. That is in the general rules all incorporeal things follow.
An incorporeal creature's attacks pass through (ignore) natural armor, armor, and shields, although deflection bonuses and force effects (such as mage armor) work normally against it.
So since the spell specifically says that the hand is incorporeal, any attacks the hand makes are blocked by force effects. In fact, it would have to specifically state that the attack is not incorporeal despite the hand being incorporeal.
Mage Armor provides an armor bonus, which is ignored by touch attacks.
Shield provides a shield bonus, which is ignored by touch attacks.
Spectral Hand makes touch attacks, and so ignores all bonuses to AC from armor, natural armor, and shield.Incorporeal Touch attacks must apply force effects to AC even though they would normally ignore shield and armor bonuses.
Spectral Hand is not listed as an Incorporeal Touch attack, but as a regular touch attack, so Incorporeal Touch attack rules do not apply.
It doesn't have to be specifically listed as an incorporeal touch attack. All attacks an incorporeal creature make pass though armor, but not force effects. That is in the general rules all incorporeal things follow.
An incorporeal creature's attacks pass through (ignore) natural armor, armor, and shields, although deflection bonuses and force effects (such as mage armor) work normally against it.So since the spell specifically says that the hand is incorporeal, any attacks the hand makes are blocked by force effects.
But the spell is not incorporeal. Why should Shocking Grasp be affected by Mage Armor in one delivery mechanism but not another.
Ignore Spellstrike, because that is a voluntary option to do more damage in exchange for facing armor.
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The hand is incorporeal. It would follow that it follows the same rules all incorporeal things do.
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But the spell is not incorporeal. Why should Shocking Grasp be affected by Mage Armor in one delivery mechanism but not another.
Ignore Spellstrike, because that is a voluntary option to do more damage in exchange for facing armor.
Because it doesn't matter what the spell being used is. It matters who is doing the attacking. In this case, it is the incorporeal hand. A shocking grasp cast by a ghost with wizard levels would also be blocked bymage armor, despite shocking grasp cast by a human bypassing the same defense.
It is a case of "specific vs general". The general rule is that armor doesn't protect from touch attacks. The specific rule, which trumps the general rule, is that incorporeal attacks can't ignore force effects. Force effects like mage armor.
Yes, but aren't both MageArmor and Shield Force Effects and are therefore specifically applied to touch AC? (Versus Incorpreal Touch attacks specifically)
Touch spells delivered by a spectral hand are not "incorporeal touch attacks". They are just "touch attacks", the same as they would be if delivered directly by the wizard.
The Spectral Hand itself is incorporeal, but has no attack on it's own.
Because it doesn't matter what the spell being used is. It matters who is doing the attacking. In this case, it is the incorporeal hand. A shocking grasp cast by a ghost with wizard levels would also be blocked bymage armor, despite shocking grasp cast by a human bypassing the same defense.
This is false. It is the ability/spell that matters, not who/what delivers it.
It is very possible for the same entity to have both touch attacks and incorporeal touch attacks. A ghost is a prime example of this.
Corrupting Touch (Su): All ghosts gain this incorporeal touch attack.
vs.
Draining Touch (Su): The ghost died while insane or diseased. It gains a touch attack that drains 1d4 points from any one ability score it selects on a hit
Even without spells, a ghost can have both touch attacks and incorporeal touch attacks.
Touch attacks only need to come into contact with the target, any part will do, not just your flesh. Incorporeal touch attacks are attacks that need to touch your flesh to make affect. The reason Mage Armour can stop an incorporeal touch attack, is that it can hit the Force Effect, not someone’s flesh.
All ghosts gain this incorporeal touch attack. By passing part of its incorporeal body through a foe's body as a standard action, the ghost inflicts a number of d6s equal to its CR in damage
The spell gives you a +2 bonus on your melee touch attack roll, and attacking with the hand counts normally as an attack.
The spell says it counts as a normal touch attack, not an incorporeal touch attack.
if a ghost were to attempt to shocking grasp you it would ignore the mage armor.
The reason that mage armor stops incorporeal touch attacks is that its solid as far as a ghost is concerned. The ghost tries to put their hand into you liver and CLANG. Hits the force armor.
Shocking grasp doesn't care about the mage armor , it hits it and discharges and hurts you.