I've been fine tuning a Scimitar Magus of an unusual sort lately, using Bard 1/Magus 10 to build it. It's very flavorful and I am happy with almost every aspect of the character, except for one issue: I cannot seem to get their HP high enough to be on the front lines unless I ditch Weapon Finesse. This isn't insurmountable on its own, since the Bard level (Dawnflower Dervish to be precise) grants the Dervish Dance feat.
However, I want to get Weapon Finesse in here if possible since it would make non-sword-delivered Touch Spells more accurate if needed and also allow some viable backup weapons at early levels when they tend to be needed.
With that laid out, and the build provided below, can anyone suggest some PFS legal ways to get the HP count up on this character edit: within the first few levels if possible (end edit) or else legitimately convince me that I don't need Weapon Finesse on them?
Build: 20 Point Buy, PFS Legal
Elf, NG Align, Deity Sarenrae
Str 11
Dex 17 (15 + 2 Elf)
Con 13 (15 - 2 Elf)
Int 16 (14 + 2 Elf)
Wis 8
Cha 12
+1 to Dex at Level 4, then +1 to Con at Level 8.
Levels: Bard 1 (Dawnflower Dervish), Magus 10 (Hexcrafter). Favored Class is Magus.
Favored Class Options: Magus 1: +1 HP. Magus 2-7: 1/6th of a New Arcana to gain Admonishing Ray and Burst of Radiance via Spell Blending. Magus 8-10: +1 HP.
Skills, Languages: Omitted for brevity, will provide on request if it will help.
Traits: Magical Lineage (Shocking Grasp) and Quantium University Graduate (+2 Concentration on Defensive Casting arcane spells)
Feats:
1 (Class Bonus): Dervish Dance
1: Weapon Finesse or Toughness (would prefer Weapon Finesse, but if someone can convince me the build doesn't even need it... then I'll gladly ditch it to keep Toughness)
3: Spell Penetration
5: Extra Arcana (Healing Hex via Hexcrafter options)
6 (Magus 5 Bonus): Intensified Spell
7: Improved Familiar (To obtain a Pseudodragon at Level 8)
9: Weapon Focus (Scimitar)
11: Extra Arcana (Spell Blending: Communal Resist Energy and Magic Circle Against Evil. Am willing to be talked into better options for these)
HP Counts: By Level
L1: 9 (as Bard 8 Level 1 maximized, +1 Con)
L2: 16 (as Magus d8 to 5, +1 Con, +1 Favored Class)
L3: 22 (+6)
L4: 28 (+6)
L5: 34 (+6)
L6: 40 (+6)
L7: 46 (+6)
L8: 60 (as +6, then Con 14 kicks in adding another +8)
L9: 68 (+8, as 5 Magus + 2 Con + 1 Favored Class Option)
L10: 76 (+8)
L11: 84 (+8)
This concerns me because I've seen non-melee Sorcerers and Wizards who are as tough as this, often without any special help or spells to do so. I fear my 'front liner' doesn't have enough HP, accordingly. The problem isn't as severe from Level 8 onward, but it's still not great. I'd love to find a way to keep Weapon Finesse (or be convinced it's unnecessary) in the build while still fixing the HP issue.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Unfortunately:
{. . .} If an alternate favored class option modifies a class feature or ability, it can't be taken before the character has that class feature or ability. For example, if a class gains a class feature at 6th level, a character couldn't take a racial favored class option that applies to that class feature until 6th level, even if the benefit from that option wouldn't be high enough to add a bonus until a later level. {. . .}
Since you don't get a Magus Arcana until 3rd level, that means that you can't take this Favored Class Bonus until you get to 3rd level (which is your 4th level because you dipped Bard). This means that in PFS, you can only get 1 extra Magus Arcana this way, and you will be approaching the end of your PFS career; even outside of PFS, you can at best get only 2 extra Magus Arcana (and often still only 1), unless the campaign goes Epic AND selects the option to allow more than 20 levels of 1 base class. So you might as well keep taking hit points for your Favored Class Bonus.
With respect to Weapon Finesse, instead of taking that, you might have to just depend upon the bonus Dervish Dance (freeing up the feat for Toughness), and in case you need a backup weapon, just carry around an extra scimitar. You could even make use of this by having your scimitars be made of different special materials (like for instance mithral and cold iron) and/or have different enchantments, for different situations.
...That's... interesting.
So even if it won't fully grant the option until a level where I DO have the feature, it's still illegal? This would free up some HP, but wow, that's tremendously disappointing if so.
EDIT: Wait, upon re-reading, YES, clearly that's what it says. Well, I guess this... solves the problem? Thank you for the info!
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You can purchase an Ioun stone at some point for +2 CON (assuming your belt is going to DEX. 8,000 gp.
Also, you can use the retraining rules to retrain hitpoints up to the maximum you theoretically could have rolled. This is PFS legal. The cost is 3 days of retraining. So 3 prestige and 3x10xlevel gold. In theory you could spend half your prestige (if you earn full prestige) and some gold and pick up +1 hp every level after 1st. (At first you have maximum hitpoints, so there’s no room to retrain). Even at 11th level, it’s only costing you 330gp and the 3 prestige for 1 hit point.
Wait, what's this +2 Con Ioun Stone for 8000 GP? I looked through there and the ones I found were 16K and up for that benefit?
That said, I think we may be approaching a solved problem here. I'm very disappointed I have to lose the extra Arcana, but if I am required to dump it for PFS legality then this frees up some HP anyway. Still, a little extra HP is a little extra HP.
I wonder if I could spend that Level 1 Feat on something better than Weapon Finesse or Toughness in this case. Not that Toughness is a bad pick, and I might go back to it at this rate, but... always glad to hear other ideas, because this thread has shown I overlooked some major things already with how the Arcana bonus works!
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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The easiest solution is reducing your strength to 8 and using those points to increase your con to 14. Using a masterwork backpack and/or pathfinder pouch it should be easy enough to keep your gear at a light load.
Alternatively, go str 10, con 14, wis 7 since will is your strong save and elves get related bonuses. One more point of con makes much more difference to you than one less point of wis.
HTH!
^Link is broken, but I assume you mean this one?
Sorry it took me so long to reply to this, but thank you all for your ideas! In the end I went with 'a little from column A, a little from column B', etc.
I think between a combination of all these little patch-up options, I have the problem solved and the result is a significantly more viable character with only minor dings to the character's flavor (I'll find some way to get that Will save back up). Retraining if needed, moving to Str 10 Wis 7, using Favored Class Options, and that Pink stone helps.
Str 10 for carrying things is a BIT rough starting out, but heavy use of special materials to lighten items will fix the problem after just a few sessions. I can make this work.
Sadly, I'll have to pass on Spell Blending. Something had to go with all this flavor-stuff I'm packing in (a Familiar, healing abilities, social skills, Flight, and who knows what else I crammed onto the feature list) and access to Spell Blending ended up being it. I can still easily fill out a Spells Per Day List using just the Magus options without feeling like I have gaps, so it works out. The only way to fit it in would be to take 1/6th of an extra Arcana 6 times at levels 4-10, so by the time I get a pay-off from it I would already be done playing the character. Ah well.
Feel free to continue bouncing ideas in this thread if anyone else would benefit from it, but my question is definitely answered and I'm good to go; I appreciate all your help!
I have a halfling with 5 or 6 STR IIRC. He can hold 16lbs before going to 15ft speed haha. Given that, if he can make it work, i'm sure you can at 10 Str. And! I run weighted gold and potions and stuff, so it's easy to become encumbered since I actually want them to track that.
That said, for loot he uses a Mule and they often have a guard for it or plan ahead. Having someone else burly in your party helps; for which this party has one guy at 18 Str (Human) and another at 16. Let them carry stuff when you're getting too heavy.
Bags of Holding and whatnot are pretty much how you get around all the encumberment issues anyway.
Actually, that comes upon an interesting topic.
I'm curious, at level 1, what does a Dex Magus' carried gear look like? I managed to bring it down to around 35-38 pounds by losing a few redundant weapons (eventually realized a Sap is the same thing as a Scimitar insofar as non-lethal damage goes at Str 10 plus Dex 17 or 18, for example) and switching to lighter clothing, but I'd love to see how others are making this work at Str 8, 9, and 10.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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I'm curious, at level 1, what does a Dex Magus' carried gear look like?
It helps if you're small, because that halves the weight of most of your gear. Use a masterwork backpack to carry more. Use a wand of mage armor for defense until you can afford a mithral chain shirt, or take the lower movement and carry scrolls of ex.retreat. Get a minor bag of holding asap, and until then have the party barbarian carry your gear. Or buy a mule, they're cheap.
It's ok if your character isn't flawless at level one because he can become better at later levels. Having a lower AC or movement until level two tends to be a better deal than invest build points in strength (which does absolutely nothing for you after a few levels, and you won't get the points back).
For a caster, you could go as low as strength 5. For a melee character, 8 is easily doable.
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With that laid out, and the build provided below, can anyone suggest some PFS legal ways to get the HP count up on this character edit: within the first few levels if possible (end edit) or else legitimately convince me that I don't need Weapon Finesse on them?- Use Prestige to train max hitpoints (3 Prestige = +1 Max Hitpoints)
- Get +1 CON at 4th and +1 DEX at 8th.
- Buff with Bear's Endurance in a fight.
Is training more max hp for prestige really legal in pfs? I'm sure i read somewhere that this option could only be used if you were rolling for hp, and pfs only uses average hp per die.
Yeah, it's legal in PFS but has prestige costs associated with it.
Kurald: Sure, but I'm talking about start of play, bog-standard-150 GP loadouts. Can't do a Wand at start since you don't have 750 GP to spend.
I'm curious what people think a functional loadout for start-of-play looks like.
Um.
Why is your intelligence so high. I see no purpose.
I would end it at 14. I would consider even lower.
And read http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?423754-Myrrh-Frankincense-and -Steel-Kurald-Galain-s-Guide-to-the-Magus
Because having higher Spell DCs isn't a terrible idea. Having a few extra spells per day isn't a terrible idea either.
Having more skill points is nice in PFS since skill challenges come up fairly often. Doing a little better at Knowledge checks is nice too.
As near as I can tell, that's four significant purposes to it.
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^That only goes up to August 2017. For a version that is up to date as of October 2017, see here (and discussion thread for this).