Need advice choosing 15 point buy starting stats for magus.


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

Silver Crusade

So i'm having trouble deciding which to take for a carrion crown campaign that's gonna be starting soon.
It was originally gonna be this
str:12
dex:16
Con:14
Int:14
Wis:10
Cha:8

but then i thought about going this route
str:14
dex:14
Con:14
Int:14
Wis:10
Cha:8

As it would offer much more balance flexibility, and wouldn't pigeon hole me into using a single weapon.

Which one would be better at least starting out?


While the flexibility might be appealing, it carries pitfalls. The phrase may start with "Jack of all trades", but the second part is "Master of None." I think with the more balanced stat block, you'll find your combat ability lagging behind the rest of the party.

I'm guessing, based on the stat distribution, that your magus is a human and you're trying to decide where to put your +2 bonus, and the reason you're concerned about being pigeon holed into a single weapon is that you know Carrion Crown is undead heavy, so you don't want to be stuck fighting skeletons and zombies with a rapier.

Fortunately, Weapon Finesse allows you to finesse more than just a rapier. You can also finesse a light mace (bludgeoning, same damage die) and a sickle (slashing, same damage die). The only sacrifice is the higher crit-range of the rapier versus the other two, a small price to pay for ignoring damage-based DR.

Once you have Weapon Focus in your preferred weapon (say rapier) and a +1 BAB, you pick up the Weapon Versatility feat from the Undead Slayer's Handbook, which allows you to spend a swift action to change the damage type you normally deal with the weapon from piercing to bludgeoning or slashing. Once your BAB hits +5, it's a free action to do so.

Weapon Finesse can be a lot more versatile than most people think. It's not just rapiers and scimitars.


Personally I'd go with a str build. Assuming a human/half-human race:
Str 14+2
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 8

Make sure to prepare disrupt undead.


Phntm888 wrote:

While the flexibility might be appealing, it carries pitfalls. The phrase may start with "Jack of all trades", but the second part is "Master of None." I think with the more balanced stat block, you'll find your combat ability lagging behind the rest of the party.

I'm guessing, based on the stat distribution, that your magus is a human and you're trying to decide where to put your +2 bonus, and the reason you're concerned about being pigeon holed into a single weapon is that you know Carrion Crown is undead heavy, so you don't want to be stuck fighting skeletons and zombies with a rapier.

Fortunately, Weapon Finesse allows you to finesse more than just a rapier. You can also finesse a light mace (bludgeoning, same damage die) and a sickle (slashing, same damage die). The only sacrifice is the higher crit-range of the rapier versus the other two, a small price to pay for ignoring damage-based DR.

Once you have Weapon Focus in your preferred weapon (say rapier) and a +1 BAB, you pick up the Weapon Versatility feat from the Undead Slayer's Handbook, which allows you to spend a swift action to change the damage type you normally deal with the weapon from piercing to bludgeoning or slashing. Once your BAB hits +5, it's a free action to do so.

Weapon Finesse can be a lot more versatile than most people think. It's not just rapiers and scimitars.

To be fair the full quote is "A jack of all trades is a master of none, but still better than a master of one." Unfortunately, specializing is the name of this game.

Anyway, back to the OP's post. The biggest question is, what do you want out of your magus? You say you don't want to be pigeon-holed into a single weapon, which there are ways out of as long as you want to stick to melee weapons, but did you mean you want to be able to do ranged or be a switch-hitter?


Malik Gyan Daumantas wrote:

So i'm having trouble deciding which to take for a carrion crown campaign that's gonna be starting soon.

It was originally gonna be this
str:12
dex:16
Con:14
Int:14
Wis:10
Cha:8

but then i thought about going this route
str:14
dex:14
Con:14
Int:14
Wis:10
Cha:8

As it would offer much more balance flexibility, and wouldn't pigeon hole me into using a single weapon.

Which one would be better at least starting out?

If you're going to be optimizing Dexterity, Strength doesn't need to be any higher than 10. You're also a secondary frontliner with some decent AC options, so Constitution of 14 shouldn't be needed either. This frees up 4 points to use.

From there, you can pump your Intelligence up higher to 16, or make your Wisdom a 14 for better Will Saves. Even Undead have some bad save-or-suck Will Saves, especially sentient undead, so keep those saving throws up. I'd suggest the 18 Dexterity, but you'd need more points for that, and I doubt you're willing to dump more than what you already have.

Most "Grace" feats won't work with a Magus due to their errata disallowing the use of their other hand for anything except holding a buckler for AC, which actually means a Rapier via Fencing Grace option is out of the question if you're going to be doing the cookie cutter Shocking Grasp Magus.

Dervish Dance, on the other hand, is much more feasible, can come online just as quick, has the same damage dice and threat range as the Rapier, and deals Slashing damage instead, which works great on those zombie-types that I imagine you'll be encountering a lot of. There's a reason Dervish Dance is still used to this day, and that's because it has little conflict with Magus mechanics. (Well, that, and Paizo hasn't nerfed it yet.)

As for a Bludgeoning weapon, that depends on what level of DR you're facing. DR 5/Bludgeoning may not be worth using a bludgeoning weapon on, since the damage you deal with the scimitar will be near identical. DR 10 and above, on the other hand, would require the use of a light mace. But, if you make it a +1 Agile Light Mace, it will be just as effective as your Scimitar.

Silver Crusade

in actuality its more of a starting base. The idea is to start off with balanced stats, then pump all the natural stat increases into Int from 4,8,12 and so on, while using a belt of physical perfection to bolster the physical stats


You don't really need an Intelligence higher than 16, the minimum to cast all of your spells. That isn't to say you don't want it higher (bonus spells are nice), but I wouldn't sink your level up stats into it, and you don't need the Save DC boost since you usually just go with spells that don't have a saving throw that are also Touch spells, like Shocking Grasp.

The only exceptions to that line of thinking are the Bladed Dash spells /Arcane Accuracy Arcana (which give a bonus to attacks via Intelligence) and the Kensai Magus archetype (which gives AC and Initiative bonuses equal to your Intelligence at the cost of not being able to use armor), but the former is still good even without added Intelligence, and the latter wasn't mentioned as being in effect, so I didn't think it'd be applicable here.

Dexterity gives you a lot more for your attributes; AC/CMD, Saves, Initiative, (Combat) Skills, To-hit, Damage, etc. I'd instead pump your level ups into Dexterity (assuming you're wanting to go Dervish Dance), get a Belt of Dex+Con, and then get a Headband of Int+Wis. This way, you're hitting with your attacks more often and you're becoming more durable.

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