Metamagic question - furious spell and empower spell

[Hubbaman]

Hello!
I wonder if the two metamagic feats/abilities furious and empower would stack, meaning; do I add the bonus from furious before or after I empower.

Empower do have a text on how it interacts with maximized (you apply the bonuses noe at a time on the base da age). From that I guess it is the same for furious and empower.

Thanks for the hjelp!

[Hubbaman]

Well, that's not true for maximize.

Maximize spell has this line in it's entry: An empowered, maximized spell gains the separate benefits of each feat: the maximum result plus half the normally rolled result.

So you would get: ([the maximized result] + variables) + ([an actual throw] + variables) * 0.5 for an empowered and maximized throw.

Furious spell have no clause like that on the end, so I guess it works with empower, but not sure...

[vhok]

if you know why are u here asking?

[Hubbaman]

Well, I know how maximized and empower work when combined, as it is stated in the maximized spell text. I know little about combining metamagic other than that.

[Jeraa]

vhok wrote:

if you know why are u here asking?

Because it is clear how Empower and Maximize work. It isn't clear how Empower and Furious work.

Do metamagic feats work off each other? The Maximize/Empower combo says no. But does that mean that Maximize/Intensified don't combine and that only the normal spell damage is maximized, with the new extra dice rolled normally?

It isn't clear, but I believe that the feats do work off each other unless otherwise stated. But that is my opinion. I don't think there is an official stance on either side.

[SheepishEidolon]

There is no rule in which order you apply metamagic feats. The FAQ about Heighten Spell allows both orders (Quicken first and Heighten first).

The clause for Maximize Spell + Empower Spell is probably just a balance thing. 150% of maximum damage can be a lot, potentially rendering higher level spells obsolete. Though I'd assume the increased spell level usually is a high enough price...

Either way, Empower Spell says it does multiply the bonuses to the dice also. That would include the ones from Furious Spell. Maybe it's simply up to the player in which order they apply metamagic...

Jeraa wrote:

It isn't clear, but I believe that the feats do work off each other unless otherwise stated. But that is my opinion.

If they don't, you get quite a mess. Like an empowered reach spell which doesn't do increased damage once you target a creature further away than usually possible...

[Hubbaman]

Alright! Thanks guys!

Will do some math to check out how this will work out for my Kineticist.