Help for Support Sensei Monk


Advice


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Hey guys,

After taking a break from Pathfinder for a bit, I'm joining a group with some old friends where I was told "All books are available". This isn't a heavy-optimization crew, but there is quite a bit one could do with "all books", so I decided to try one of my favorite concepts that I never got a chance to execute - the support sensei. We're on a 15 point buy. I'm running with a combination Human Sensei/Drunken Master/Monk of the Lotus on a 15 point buy. I'm a bit concerned about offensive capabilities, but I also don't want to take too much away from the concept, which is another iteration of the "non-magic magic user", basically. The big thing is that I want the monk to be able to contribute. I only analyzed through level 12, since, well, mosHere's what the progression looks like thus far:

Stats: STR: 10, DEX: 13, CON: 14, INT: 10, WIS: 17, CHA: 10

1st Lvl: AC Bonus, Unarmed Strike, Monk Bonus Feat (Dodge), Touch of Serenity, Advice (Inspire Courage), Feat: Psychic Sensitivity, Feat: Empath

2nd Lvl: Insightful Strike, Root Chakra (DC 11; DR # open chakras/-)

3rd Lvl: Drunken Ki (standard ki uses plus 5 ft. step w/o provoking), Manuever Training, Advice (Inspire Competence), Feat: Snake Style

4th Lvl: Ki Pool (standard uses), Qinggong Power (True Strike), Sacral Chakra (DC 13; Fly speed base movement, Cloud Step rules)

5th Lvl: Qinggong Power (Barkskin), Drunken Strength, Feat: Chakra Initiate

6th: Mystic Wisdom (1 ally), Naval Chakra (DC 16, 2d8 energy in 30' cone ignoring resistance/protection/immunity)

7th: Qinggong Power (Gaseous Form), Feat: Truth In Wine

8th: Heart Chakra (DC 20, Heal 1d8 + 2 * # of open chakras)

9th: Advice (Inspire Greatness), Feat: Teleportation Mastery

10th: Mystic Wisdom (All allies, plus access to and share Monk Moves abilities)

11th: Drunken Courage (Immune to fear), Feat: Deep Drinker

12th: Touch of Surrender (6 ki upon finishing blow to Charm Monster with no save)

Thoughts? There's a few ways that popped in my head to enhance things (subbing feat stuff for the Snake Style chain, Multiclassing a level of Empyreal Tattooed Sorcerer, then taking Spectrum Sight).

Thoughts?


How committed are you to unarmed combat? A weapon would probably serve you better in the long run, since a weapon is easy to enchant and can be two-handed.

Dual Talent Human is a help for any ability spread, and a huge help for a 15pt buy. Why 13DEX and 10STR? Zero damage modifier is pretty grim.

I would probably avoid dipping a level, unless maybe Cleric for a good Domain Power.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
BadBird wrote:

How committed are you to unarmed combat? A weapon would probably serve you better in the long run, since a weapon is easy to enchant and can be two-handed.

Dual Talent Human is a help for any ability spread, and a huge help for a 15pt buy. Why 13DEX and 10STR? Zero damage modifier is pretty grim.

I would probably avoid dipping a level, unless maybe Cleric for a good Domain Power.

I'm not particularly connected to using a weapon. The only concern would be proficiency, since this build is fairly feat starved. The rest of the party group is an invulnerable/drunken barbarian, a hexcrafter magus, and an alchemist. My boys got my back damage-wise. That said, there just isn't a lot of room for anything he isn't already able to use. What would be a good weapon that doesn't need Flurry to look good and that doesn't require a feat investment for the monk?

I hate 15 point buys. The only reason I didn't run Dual Talent is not being able to afford losing the Feat, as the build is feat starved.

The Tattooed Empyreal Sorcerer is a dip specifically for the "domain power" - the tattoo familiar. Sense Motive gets outsized usage (as AC in combat, powers Read Emotional Aura and powers Prognostication, and the familiar gives you Alertness. It would be the cherry on top of being able to cast Moment of Greatness and Silent Image at will.


Temple sword would be the simple choice, since it's effectively a longsword for Monks. However if you're not going to have a STR modifier or Power Attack, then two-handing becomes irrelevant. It's still more effective to enchant, I guess.

Sensei gets only 1 round of performance per level, so some Extra Performance or Lingering Performance might help a lot.

For Cleric grabs, I was thinking of something like Repose for Gentle Rest in combat and Reformation Inquisition for using WIS on social skills and oratory.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
BadBird wrote:
Temple sword would be the simple choice, since it's effectively a longsword for Monks. However if you're not going to have a STR modifier or Power Attack, then two-handing becomes irrelevant. It's still more effective to enchant, I guess.

Ah, I gotcha. How would you want to balance things? What I mean is this - one of the big plusses to Sensei is that it takes some of the focus off of STR/DEX and moves it to WIS at 2nd level. So having WIS as a primary and CON as a secondary stat works, but which becomes tertiary (STR or DEX), and at what value? My call was to say that STR, for a Sensei, is strictly damage modifier, carrying capacity, and using non-monk weapons in comparatively close quarters, which I hope to never do. DEX covers AC, Reflex saves, and non-monk distance weapons, which are a bit more likely. The call I made was that the Feat I needed to help STR (Power Attack) couldn't be taken as a monk bonus feat, but the one that supplemented DEX (Dodge) could. Is there a solid way to get around this?

I do remember now why I didn't get a temple sword - I'm starting at level one and can't afford it. He does have nunchuku, though.

Quote:
For Cleric grabs, I was thinking of something like Repose for Gentle Rest in combat and Reformation Inquisition for using WIS on social skills and oratory.

Ooooooooohhhh... yeah that'd be great.

8th level is functionally a dead level (WTH Paizo? A dead level in official materials), so I was looking at multi-classing after either level 7 or 8. Now that you mention Reformation, though, Inquisitor has started looking good too. The only thing that makes me pause is that it slows down "All allies take Gaseous Form for a single ki" at level 10.


Clerics may take Inquisitions, so unless there's something at Inquisitor 1 you need, Cleric gets two Domain or Inquisition picks instead of the Inquisitor's one.

A WIS-focused Monk already has a strong AC, especially with Dodge and Barkskin. Bracers of Armor = armor enhancement as far as cost goes, so Monk AC is basically your base 'armor'. Which means a level 8 Monk with 18WIS, a +2 headband, +2 from Monk levels, Dodge and Barkskin is in heavy armor territory. So I wouldn't worry too much about DEX AC.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
BadBird wrote:
Clerics may take Inquisitions, so unless there's something at Inquisitor 1 you need, Cleric gets two Domain or Inquisition picks instead of the Inquisitor's one.

Breadth not depth (which is the theme of this character, pretty much), though looking at it again, Monster Lore/Judgement is worse than another domain AND channeling

A WIS-focused Monk already has a strong AC, especially with Dodge and Barkskin. Bracers of Armor = armor enhancement as far as cost goes, so Monk AC is basically your base 'armor'. Which means a level 8 Monk with 18WIS, a +2 headband, +2 from Monk levels, Dodge and Barkskin is in heavy armor territory. So I wouldn't worry too much about DEX AC.

From that thought, though, it seems wiser just to drop DEX to 10 and up the WIS to 18. He's using it to hit 99% of the time, for AC, and to power pretty much every ability and primarily used skill...


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
JAMRenaissance wrote:


From that thought, though, it seems wiser just to drop DEX to 10 and up the WIS to 18. He's using it to hit 99% of the time, for AC, and to power pretty much every ability and primarily used skill...

So I'm starting the campaign (Ruins in Azlant), and I realized that the following is my current stat array:

STR: 10 DEX: 10 CON: 14 INT: 10 WIS: 18 CHA: 10

With the option of dropping CHA to 8 if I want a few more points in the physical stats. The big obvious problem is the lack of damage, but I'm making a choice of that. Make the CON 12 (or 13 and dump CHA); up the STR to at least 13, and pick up the Dragon Style feat tree instead of Snake Style.

I think this builds the non-MAD monk.

My love of monks has nothing to do with effectiveness, but I think this may be a combination of things that would be usable as well, with a few different flavors.

The archetype combos needed are: Sensei + Ki Generating Archetype + Offensive/Utility Archetype.

Ki Generating Archetypes are Hungry Ghost, Drunken Master, and Ki Mystic. Of these, Ki Mystic is the weakest, but I would also say it is the best for the "mystic monk" being designed. Hungry Ghost and Drunken Master are both more efficient with Hungry Ghost serving as a theorhetically unlimited amount of ki and Drunken Master functionally adding 1+CON*2 ki a day (more if you don't mind being nauseated, at least until you can retrain a Qinggong Power to Neutralize Poison). Ki Mystic is just "extra ki" in terms of ki generation, but 2 ki for free is better than none.

The Offensive/Utility Archetypes are Hungry Ghost, Monk of the Lotus, and Monk of the Four Winds. Again... I recognize that MY build does almost no damage, but combine elemental fist / the usage of fighting styles with throwing some points into STR and DEX, and you /SHOULD/ be ok. With that said, I don't do DPR combinations, for the most part, so I don't know if it is considered "good enough" on a broader scale.

There's also three things we can add to this build which flow easily from this set up and are fairly cheap: Psychic Sensitivity (1 feat), Snake Style (1 feat), and (most importantly) two levels of Ninja either after 6th or after 10th (depending on which Monk abilities you'd prefer not to delay).I think you have a really unique buffing machine. The 2nd level of Ninja is for Forgotten Trick, the real bonus to this. The cost is steep (at least two ki, if not more), thus relegating it to Hungry Ghost or Drunken Master build, but now you, at 8th level, can both use any Ninja Trick, but also give any ally within 30 feet any Ninja Trick. Alternatively,if you can wait until after 12th level, give all of your allies any Ninja Trick as well.


The Sensei archetype is a support type one. It's not truly meant to strike hard, and rather to enhance your teamates from back lines.
If you try to make a Sensei efficient in the front lines, you are probably going to spend a lot of efforts only to reach an average result.

There is two ways to make an efficient sensei to my knowledge:

----

The first one is to abuse a ki regeneration mechanic and blast things between advices with a quinggong power...

In that case, your best bet is going high con and wisdom, use drunken master archetype and drink everyday until you feel sick (this is not an unlimited ki as some people think: there is a rule somewhere saying how much alcoholic brevages you can drink be day before being nauseated)
Fast drinker, deep drinker, scorching ray and lingering performance are almost mandatory for this.

Hungry ghost is not nearly as efficient than drunken master for ki regeneration after the first levels, and you can get his ki regeneration mechanic in later levels with a quinggong power anyway.

-----

The second one is to accept your support role and go full support.

For this, the most interesting thing I found is to use Ascetic Style and a weapon of the "monk" fighter weapon group (to not be confused with a weapon having the "monk" quality) having both reach and trip qualities: between advices, you just trip people with your reach weapon, or deal additional damage from behing your frontliners based on your unarmed damage due to the style.

Like a kusari-gama or a Kyoketsu Shoge, for exemple.
Alternatively, you can drop the "trip" thingy and just do ranged damage with a rope dart.

Ki Mystic brings rerolls to your teamates and monk of Four Winds brings Slow Time, so both are good for a full support Sensei.

----

I had a long time dream to make a SAD monk build based on the sensei archetype, but I never find a convincing formula for it.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Moonheart wrote:

In that case, your best bet is going high con and wisdom, use drunken master archetype and drink everyday until you feel sick (this is not an unlimited ki as some people think: there is a rule somewhere saying how much alcoholic brevages you can drink be day before being nauseated)

Fast drinker, deep drinker, scorching ray and lingering performance are almost mandatory for this.

1+2*Con Mod.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/gameMasteryGuide/drugsAndAddiction.html

So with Drunken Master with this build, you're looking at somewhere between 3 and 9 drunken ki a day. If you're going offensive and don't want to be evil, this is the way to go.

Since creating this post, I decided to instead go Ki Mystic, so I'm going to determine experimentally how much ki is needed and if it is viable against Hungry Ghost / Drunken Master.


An alternate ki generation method would be using the cleric dip recommended above and the bronze gong http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/goods-and-services/toys-games-puzzles/#TO C-Bronze-Gong
to convert channel into ki.


JAMRenaissance wrote:
Moonheart wrote:

In that case, your best bet is going high con and wisdom, use drunken master archetype and drink everyday until you feel sick (this is not an unlimited ki as some people think: there is a rule somewhere saying how much alcoholic brevages you can drink be day before being nauseated)

Fast drinker, deep drinker, scorching ray and lingering performance are almost mandatory for this.

1+2*Con Mod.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/gameMasteryGuide/drugsAndAddiction.html

So with Drunken Master with this build, you're looking at somewhere between 3 and 9 drunken ki a day. If you're going offensive and don't want to be evil, this is the way to go.

Since creating this post, I decided to instead go Ki Mystic, so I'm going to determine experimentally how much ki is needed and if it is viable against Hungry Ghost / Drunken Master.

That's without counting deep drinker, which double the amount, and is he reason why you're going to wish a high con. With items, you can finish to get about 24 ki points by day with the drunken master, plus what you will be able to restore by giving coup de grace to fallen enemies with ki leech (which is available as a quinggong power)

That's why for spamming ki powers, the drunken master is largely better than any other option, imho

Ki Mystic is really behind in terms of ki by day, and push you to spend even more in it.

Grand Lodge

Here's the optimized version of what I'm doing on my Sensei for ki:

Undine with Amphibious
Cha 12
Worship Irori, one level dip of Cleric (Separatist, Angelfire Adept) with Aquatic Terrain domain and one other (I like Memory, but Tactics Inquisition is kind of cool.)
Ki Channel feat

This gives you 6 regular channels, and 3 channels that only affect Aquatic creatures (which you are.)

If those 9 Ki aren't enough, but a Phylactery of Positive Channeling, and only use it out of combat, to let you refill 27 extra Ki a day. You'll probably lose a couple because your Wisdom headband bonus becomes temporary though.

If those 27 aren't enough, carry around a bunch of Tea of Transference. Each 40gp Tea lets you spend a Ki to recharge a Channel, which you can use to get 3 Ki back. So you're spending 20gp/Ki, potentially less if you've got a friendly Alchemist.

(I didn't go Cha 12, Angelfire Adept or Separatist, so I only have 3 channels, but that hasn't been limiting so far in PFS and I spend Ki like water.)


Sounds fun, but check your action economy to be sure you can active all those actions and thus keep a fluent spamming.

Drunken Master would not work well without Fast Drinker which allow him to not spend any action he need for ki powers to replenish his ki. You need your build to be able to do the same if you want a decent efficiency

Grand Lodge

Yeah, mine is all re-filling out of combat. 12 Ki and a Ring of Ki Mastery has been way more than enough for any one combat so far.

I can't imagine giving up Ki Mystic's Mystic Insight at this point. That re-roll is one of the most memorable moves for my Sensei. Help one person who rolls a one on their save, or fails to confirm a big crit, and it'll stand out. Spending a Ki for +4 Insight to a skill check is big too (+2 Inspire Competence, +3 Aid Other w/(non-halfling) Helpful, +4 Insight is +9, making your advice *very* impactful)


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Markov Spiked Chain wrote:

Yeah, mine is all re-filling out of combat. 12 Ki and a Ring of Ki Mastery has been way more than enough for any one combat so far.

I can't imagine giving up Ki Mystic's Mystic Insight at this point. That re-roll is one of the most memorable moves for my Sensei. Help one person who rolls a one on their save, or fails to confirm a big crit, and it'll stand out. Spending a Ki for +4 Insight to a skill check is big too (+2 Inspire Competence, +3 Aid Other w/(non-halfling) Helpful, +4 Insight is +9, making your advice *very* impactful)

I'm kind of in the same boat; Drunken Master is WAY better from an optimizing viewpoint, but Ki Mystic goes MUCH more along the lines of the vision I have for the character ("The Bard That Ducks A Lot Of Punches").

Also, am I off in interpreting that usage of chakras are swift actions and not standard actions, and, as such, can be done with regular attacks in the same manner as Cold Ice Strike?

Looking at the Chakra descriptions

Spoiler:

Awakening chakras or maintaining awakened chakras is a swift action that costs 1 ki point. On the first round, this opens the root chakra. Each round after the first, it opens the next chakra in the sequence, up to the crown chakra on the seventh round. Once the initiate has begun awakening his chakras, each round he must continue opening chakras or maintain his awakened chakras, or all of his chakras close and he must begin again from the root chakra. If he pauses in the progression, he can resume it at any time, provided he has spent 1 ki point per round in the meanwhile to maintain his open chakras. Each round, when expending the ki for that round, the initiate can select the benefit from one chakra awakened up to that point.

SNIP!

3. Navel Chakra (DC 16): The navel chakra is sometimes called the power chakra, for it is associated with fire, combustion, digestion, anger, joy, fear, anxiety, and laughter. Here the serpent-fire swirls and swells with heat and vital energy, the source of the so-called “fire in the belly” of common parlance.

Upon awakening his navel chakra, the initiate can channel the serpent-fire as a breath attack that deals 2d8 points of damage in a 30-foot cone. This radiant gout of orange-red liquid flame somewhat resembles fire, but bypasses all forms of energy resistance, protection, and immunity. The amount of damage increases by 1d8 for each open chakra beyond the 3rd, to a maximum of 6d8 if all of the chakras are awakened. The initiate must be at least 6th level before he can open this chakra.

Since it never explicitly says usage of the navel chakra is a standard action, I'm assuming the breath attack occurs when the ki is spent ala during the swift action.

So, as one usage, if one does multiclass into Cleric and takes the Law domain (as I may have the only monk ever to worship Iomedae and now Irori), could you not use your Touch of Law as a standard action, give yourself the guaranteed 11 roll on the savings throw, then swift action use chakra and blast with the Navel Chakra (or however high you can go with save bonus+11) with no fear of backfire due to Touch of Law?


While opening a chakra is a swift action, I think it's pretty safe to say that the breath attack enabled by opening the naval chakra is it's own action. It doesn't say that when you open the chakra you make a breath attack; its says when you open the chakra you are able to make a breath attack.

If you want a really, really badass breath attack on a Monk, cross Dragon Roar with Shaitan Style/Skin. You get a 15ft cone that deals the damage you would on a Dragon Style unarmed strike, plus 1d6/5levels Elemental Fist, plus WIS, plus 1/2level+WIS reflex save or staggered, plus 1/2level+WIS or shaken. Though I guess that's probably not possible on a Sensei.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
BadBird wrote:
While opening a chakra is a swift action, I think it's pretty safe to say that the breath attack enabled by opening the naval chakra is it's own action. It doesn't say that when you open the chakra you make a breath attack; its says when you open the chakra you are able to make a breath attack.

By that interpretation, wouldn't the verbiage have been "Upon awakening his navel chakra, the initiate can channel the serpent-fire as a breath attack that deals 2d8 points of damage in a 30-foot cone AS A STANDARD ACTION" (emphasis mine)? This isn't a situation where no action type is listed; the swift action for the ki usage /IS/ the action type labelled. Why would we assume that it is a standard action, particularly since nothing is EVER listed as a standard action in the regular version, but they explicitly list uses of chakra that are a standard action in the Serpent Fire Adept writeup (the ability to open multiple chakras under "linked chakras")?

I can see saying that you need to use your move action to fly with the Sacral Chakra (you GAIN a fly speed), but this seems pretty open and shut; I spend ki during my swift and I choose to shoot a breath attack or not do so (as opposed to, say, keeping DR3/- instead).

Don't get me wrong; consistent verbiage is the big boogeyman for Paizo. Maybe I'm wrong, and it was a grand oversight on their parts. However, given how weak people are saying chakras are, doesn't it make sense that this wasn't a wide mistake and it was always the desire?

Actually, one other example. From Throat Chakra:

Quote:


When using this chakra, the initiate slips into a kind of trance. He can take actions as normal, but he constantly mutters incoherent, often disturbing utterances of a vastly primal nature.

Now, if we use your interpretation, you just spent the swift to either maintain or open a chakra, and a standard action to create the stagger effect. What actions are LEFT to "take as normal", besides moving?


It's generally a given that abilities - at least the ones that actually do a thing - require a standard action, unless something specifically states otherwise. Supernatural abilities and I think other types are specifically called out in the text as following this rule.

There are many confusing cases with abilities that aren't clear about whether they require an action to activate at all - like the Flight Hex. But to say that making an entire breath attack requires no action, or no further action beyond a swift action that's already established as doing something else that requires a moment of time to do, seems pretty shaky. Read in a straightforward way, you're spending a swift action to gain the ability to do X, and then X is by default a standard action.


JAMRenaissance wrote:

Actually, one other example. From Throat Chakra:

Quote:


When using this chakra, the initiate slips into a kind of trance. He can take actions as normal, but he constantly mutters incoherent, often disturbing utterances of a vastly primal nature.
Now, if we use your interpretation, you just spent the swift to either maintain or open a chakra, and a standard action to create the stagger effect. What actions are LEFT to "take as normal", besides moving?

In this case, I would agree that it's not it's own action. The 'take as normal' wording basically defines that we're not dealing with something requiring more action or effort; it's operating like a magical aura effect created simply by vocalizations. Talking/babbling/whatever is generally not an action, anyhow; while directing a big cone of fire-breath at something very much is.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
BadBird wrote:

It's generally a given that abilities - at least the ones that actually do a thing - require a standard action, unless something specifically states otherwise. Supernatural abilities and I think other types are specifically called out in the text as following this rule.

There are many confusing cases with abilities that aren't clear about whether they require an action to activate at all - like the Flight Hex. But to say that making an entire breath attack requires no action, or no further action beyond a swift action that's already established as doing something else that requires a moment of time to do, seems pretty shaky. Read in a straightforward way, you're spending a swift action to gain the ability to do X, and then X is by default a standard action.

But the thing is, it DOES state otherwise - look at the stuff I quoted before. It pretty explicitly says this stuff is going down during the swift action. There is nothing in it that says that we're moving into the standard action, and "as a standard action" is pretty normal verbiage.

I thought another piece that makes me feel better about my interpretation. Linked Chakras requires use of your standard action in order to open multiple chakras. So, if it is using up the standard action, how would you be able to use your navel chakra effect in the same round?

Hence, it makes sense that the action in which you spend the ki is the action with which the effect takes place. In addition, it does follow that utilizing one chakra effect is a swift, and two takes up... the standard.

I'm going to mark it as a FAQ, but... just to make sure I'm interpreting correctly, are we about to argue that there is a possibly "overpowered" aspect of a set of abilities that are known almost universally across these boards as "total trash and worthless"? Can we let chakras have a little bit of something good?...


I've parsed what the text says pretty carefully, and given my opinion. It's not me that you'd have to convince anyhow. I read it as opening or maintaining chakras requires a swift action, and that other actions made available by the opening of chakras are not included in this action. When it says 'upon opening the chakra you can X', I read it as 'once the chakra is open, you may use this ability', not as the ability being automatically triggered.

If using the breath attack is a swift action, then it's impossible to use the breath attack on the same round you maintain or open chakras, which clearly doesn't make sense. Otherwise, the breath attack is either a standard action, or some kind of non-action that simply occurs because the chakra is open. But that runs into some strange issues as well, not least if it's also then logically applied to the heart chakra power, so that you're making a breath attack and a healing touch every round as essentially non-actions simply because those chakras are open or maintained.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
BadBird wrote:


the breath attack is

<SNIP>

some kind of non-action that simply occurs because the chakra is open. But that runs into some strange issues as well, not least if it's also then logically applied to the heart chakra power, so that you're making a breath attack and a healing touch every round as essentially non-actions simply because those chakras are open or maintained.

Yes. That's exactly it. The breath attack doesn't take up an action; it is the effect that is triggered when you spend the ki.

And yes, I'm saying that you are getting a swift action breath attack and healing touch, at the mere cost of taking an obscure archetype that isn't compatible with anything else good (save Ki Mystic), at minimum five ki plus two more ki each round you keep it up AND the DC 20 Will Save each round AND the DC 20 Fortitude each round. Odds are low of missing one, but miss the Will Save and you start over, being capable of doing it all again in another four rounds plus, again, a minimum of 5 ki. Miss the Fort and you do as much damage to yourself as the enemy.

The fact that Chakras require so many hoops to jump through, and the combination of verbiage / missing verbiage is SO specific, it really seems like this is at least RAW, if not RAI. None of the powers are explicitly labelled spell-like abilities, unlike, say, Qinggong powers. It says, rather explicitly, that you open the chakra when you spend the swift action ki point. It rather explicitly says that you get the benefit when you awaken the chakra.

I'm not arguing for you; I'm arguing for whatever developer eventually gets around to seeing the FAQ question. It seems like a confluence of things had to have gone wrong from a verbiage standpoint for this interpretation to be off.

Anyways, from here on in, I'm going to treat Chakras as a "Less Than Desired" option in my analysis, as that seems to be the common call on them.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I've been working on this idea a bit more, and I think I have it modularized. I found myself wanting to address the idea of having to go "full" support and/or focus on spamming ki. Neither is a bad direction; I found myself wondering if I could squeeze some combat ability from things. This became something of a "Sensei Stacking" guide as a result.

Disclaimers: There are two "correct answers" (Drunken Master & Exemplar Brawler dip in both flavors with either a STR 15(Dragon/Mantis focus) and No Offensive Archetype or CON 14(Elemental Styles Focus) and Monk of the Four Winds Offensive Archetype), but I like to think varying combinations could be flavorful, if not the most mechanically efficient. I am, for the record, looking at going Ki Mystic / Monk of the Four Winds with CON 14 (Elemental Styles Focus), but I'm taking a mechanically inefficient route, as I really like Empath. I'm also playing this character in Ruins of Azlant, so I'm not expecting full access to equipment that we can't build. I'm writing this without equipment in mind for that reason, with one very glaring exception.

It's definitely time to revisit my archetype stacking guide. There's been a lot of good stuff put out; I really want to revisit this sort of idea again, based around Invested Regent rather than Sensei.

Sensei!: The Magical Mystical (Mostly) Not-MAD Monk

The project became making a Monk built around Sensei, with the hope of trimming down how many attributes I needed to invest in because I'm running a 15 point buy and my GM said the magic words "You can use any book".

The main idea is to combine the Sensei archetype with two other archetypes that stack: one is chosen to increase the access to ki, and the second is chosen for offensive capabilities. This still creates a support character only, but there does has to be some focus on the character's offensive abilities to stay somewhat in situations where there aren't as many people around to be assisted. We also secure Martial Flexibility via one of a number of potential one level dips.

Attributes: This idea is centered around a 15 point buy, though, as with any monk, the higher the point buy, the more viable the creation. That said, Wisdom will be the most important statistic, as it will control your to-hit with your monk weapons (also known as "your to hit"), the strength of your ki abilities, the size of your ki pool, your most used skills (Sense Motive & Perception), and your most important save for this build (Will). The secondary statistic can be seen as your first "Style" choice. Builds that center around Strength are great for Dragon Style/Mantis Style /Maddening Style pursuits. Constitution based builds are best for the varying Elemental styles, as well as working with Drunken Master. Dexterity based builds aren't quite as conducive by my analysis, but will work for Crane Style/Tatzlwyrm Claw/Upsetting Shield builds.

Base Archetype: Sensei

Offensive Archetype: Monk of the Four Winds/ “None”/Monk of the Lotus/Hungry Ghost Monk/Black Asp/Windstep Master

These options all involve or lead to an empowered unarmed attack. The primary archetypes are Monk of the Four Winds, Hungry Ghost Monk, and not taking an archetype (i.e. staying with Stunning Fist). Monk of the Lotus is usable and has a number of great later level abilities, but it cannot really be built upon. Black Asp and Windstep Master are included since they technically stack; taking wither of these (or Hungry Ghost Monk) requires taking it for the Regenerative Archetype as well.

Regenerative Archetype: Ki Mystic / Drunken Master / Hungry Ghost Monk / “Black Asp” / “Windstep Master”

These options are meant to get you more ki. Ki Mystic and Hungry Ghost are the most viable options, though they are eclipsed by Drunken Master. It's simply hard to pass up at least 14 extra ki a day at level 11, made even better if your CON is high enough and you can take Fast Drinker. Finally, if Black Asp or Windstep Master were taken as Offensive Archetypes, they must be taken here as well.

Multiclass Dip: Strangler Brawler, Exemplar Brawler, Warsighted Oracle, Eldritch Scrapper (preferably Empyreal) Sorcerer

Martial Flexibility is a key part of this build, and a single level in a class with Martial Flexibility is all that is needed. Surprisingly, Brawler seems to best synergize with this build, especially if the redundant unarmed strike is replaced.

1st Lvl: AC Bonus, Unarmed Strike, Monk Bonus Feat , "Offensive Fist", Advice (Inspire Courage), Feat

"Offensive Fist" is the offensive weapon taken from the archetypes. These include Elemental Fist(Mot4W), Stunning Fist (No archetype taken), Touch Of Serenity(MotL), Punishing Kick, (HGM), Free poisoning (Black Asp), and Hurricane Punch (Windstep Master). Elemental Fist and Stunning Fist are by far the easiest to build from, though Monk of the Lotus gets a special message for being one of the few (only?) natural ways to target the Will save of an opponent.

This build will use Martial Flexibility to expand its options, so these first few feats will decide what you can do later. Taking Dodge as your Monk Bonus Feat opens up Crane Style. Improved Grapple will open up Grabbing, Kraken, and Tatzlywyrm Claw styles, and synergizes with a Strangler Brawler. Taking Combat Reflexes opens up Panther Style. For a build which is Feat starved, it is a really good idea to invest in that which you need. Honorable Mention to Psychic Sensitivity, which features a number of unlocks (Dowsing, Faith Healing, Read Aura, and Prognostication) which are conducive to the Monk, as well as unlocking chakra abilties.

2nd Lvl: Insightful Strike
Yay! You can hit now.

3rd Lvl: “Regen Ability” (Ki Mystic/Drunken Ki/Still Mind/Adder Strike/Still Mind), Maneuver Training, Advice (Inspire Competence), Feat

Things officially get interesting. Drunken Ki makes Drunken Master stand out, as it gives to access to your standard set of ki abilities at level 3. Ki Mystic also gives a ki pool early, though its uses are considerably more limited. The choice of feat here will also be foundational to your Martial Flexibility.

4th Lvl:Ki Pool (standard uses), Qinggong Power/WindStep

A straightforward level, for the most part. Slow Fall will undoubtedly be your first Qinggong substitution.

5th Lvl: (OR MULTICLASS DIP) Qinggong Power (Barkskin), “Regen Ability” (Mystic Insight/Drunken Strength/Steal Ki/Purity of Body/Purity of Body/Purity of Body), Feat

If you have two Style feats already, now is the time to take a dip into something that gives Martial Flexibility. Strangler Brawlers synergize well with Improved Grapple builds, while Exemplars give you the ability to remove the flat-footed status from allies. Most importantly, Brawler levels count as Monk levels for the purposes of feats, which is the real bonus. With a Charisma of 11, the Warsighted Oracle or any Sorcerer with the Eldritch Scrapper archetype works. Empyreal blooded Sorcerers are the best if your do want a touch of actual spellcasting (an option I'm considering in RoA). Whenever you do take the dip, Combat Style Master should be taken as the feat.

In any case, you now get four times a day of taking any Combat feat you qualify for. This is incredible goodness, as anyone that plays a Brawler can tell you. An analysis of possibilities based only on Combat Styles, Ki-specific Feats, and more Monk-specific feats occurs below.

There is an argument for a two level dip into Brawler. This increases your BAB even more, gives another precious feat, returns your flurrying ability (admittedly as the not-quite-as-nice Brawler's Flurry), and allows you to take the Grabbing, Jabbing, and Pummelling styles.

One last quick note - looking at the verbiage, it looks like the Wild Child Brawler will give you a free druid animal companion. This seems... questionable, but appears to work RAW.

6th: Mystic Wisdom (1 ally)
This becomes level 7 if you go for a two level dip. There is an excellent argument for waiting until level 7 to dip into a Martial Flexibility option, as you may not want to wait a level to be able to give away your abilities like candy. Don't forget that any class feature that involves spending ki can be given away - Drunken Ki's safe 5' step and Ki Mystic's bonus to a skill should also be given away as well. I see this as the level where the build truly meets its purpose. Another reason why I wanted to tinker with the combat options available is to allow for a focus on using ki to help others while using personal abilities to help themselves.

7th: (OR MULTICLASS DIP) Feat
This is the level I expect to dip into Exemplar Brawler. I'll give the breakdown on uses of it below. Note that this is the first level where you can use the FORT: +6 Item Mastery feats.

8th: Qinggong Power /Life Funnel (HGM)
Things become considerably more straightforward for a few levels. Hungry Ghost Monk must take Life Funnel, but everyone else can pick a Qinggong power

9th: Feat
Yes, there's a fairly dead Monk level, where all you are getting is plusses. The dip at least gives you a feat. Note that you can flex into second tier Elemental Feats at this point assuming you dipped Brawler.

10th: Advice (Inspire Greatness)
Another relatively small level, though Inspire Greatness can be nice.

11th: Feat, Mystic Wisdom (All allies, plus access to and share Monk Moves abilities)
And the Sensei ability gets an upgrade. Note that YOU do as well; you can now drop a ki to get back many of the ki powers that didn't have a ki cost) replaced in this archetype (evasion, fast movement, high jump, purity of body, or slow fall), since you are your own ally.

12th: “Regen Ability” (Mystic Visions/Drunken Courage/Life From A Stone/Diamond Body/Diamond Body)

You pick up your second mid-level power, all of which have fairly good uses. Drunken Courage may be the most practical. The pattern continues.

13th: “Offensive Ability” (Slow Time/Abundant Step/Touch of Surrender/Abundant Step/ Abundant Step/Abundant Step)

This is where I stopped my analysis. If Slow Time (deliverable to your buddies!) is the weakest thing available, it's not a bad set of options.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Martial Flexibility Options:
Most of this was written to support my desire to get a solid idea of what the immediate options are from the "perspective of a monk". As there is some level of planning, I wanted to make a list of what could be created using "minimal resources". I won't pretend that this covers the best situations; the Wombo Combo is the place to look for a more comprehensive and handy guide to Martial Flexibility. Instead, I'm look at either (1) what you need no resources for, or only a Wisdom of 15 as a requirement, (2) What you can build off of the 1st level monk bonus feat, or (3) what combat styles only requires a skill point investment. I will note that Combat Expertise and Improved Disarm also unlock a lot of feats, but neither is available as a level one Monk bonus feat.

There were a number of equipment trick options, so due to time constraints those are not summarized. All Equipment Tricks require the piece of equipment mentioned.

Finally, numbers in parentheses represent the number of ranks needed for the ability.

Immediate Uses Available when Martial Flexibility Is Taken:

Combat Styles
Linnorm Style: -2 to hit, WIS to damage instead of STR or DEX

Perfect Style: Resistance 5 to fire, acid, or cold

Snapping Turtle Style: +1 to AC with one hand free

Tiger Style: +2 to CMD on bullrush, trip, or overrun; slashing damage; 1d4 bleed for two rounds on critical

Non-Style Feats
Blind Fight: Reroll miss due to concealment; invisible people get no advantage

Catch Off Guard: No penalties for improvised weapons; enemies are flat-footed against you

Combat Stamina: Provides a variety of options based on your Feats (Requires GM Approval)

Death From Above: +5 to attack from above instead of charging bonus

Equipment Trick (Boot - Cleat Stomp)

Equipment Trick (Lantern - Lesser Light)

Equipment Trick (Rope - Quick Release)

Flyby Attack: Attack in the middle of a move action

Divine Fighting Technique (Way of the Perfected Fist): -2 to hit, but unarmed strike damage is always average (Must be Lawful Neutral)

Monastic Legacy: Classes besides monk count for purpose of unarmed strike

Quick Draw: Draw weapon as free action

Step Up: 5 foot step forward if opponent takes five foot step away

Telekinetic Item Mastery: Use telekinesis 1/day (with another at level 10 and 14, if using this build). Requires 7th level (6th with a two level Brawler dip) and an item with a 4th level conjuration spell requirement, such as Traveler's Tools.

Weapon Trick (Freehand Maneuver): dirty trick, disarm, drag, reposition, or steal combat maneuver with free hand and no two weapon fighting penalties (BAB 6 and Manufactured Weapon required)

Styles/Feats Based on Dodge:
Crane Style: fight defensively at -2/+3 (+4 with Acrobatics of 3)

Mobility: +4 to AC (DEX 13 required)

Styles/Feats Based on Combat Reflexes:
Panther Style: Swift action retaliatory Strike if someone makes an AoO due to movement on you.

Weapon Trick (Stylish Riposte): Gives an AoO on any opponent that misses by more than five (Manufactured Weapon Required)

Equipment Trick (Mirror - Reflect Gaze)

Styles/Feats Based on Improved Grapple:
Grabbing Style: No penalties to grappling with one hand or to AC to pin opponent (Two level Brawler dip required)

Kraken Style: Opponent takes WIS additional damage with any successful grapple check; +2 to maintain a grapple

Tatzlwyrm Claw Style: Slashing damage with Unarmed Strikes; Striking someone grappling another can force them to release the hold

Equipment Trick (Net - Grappling Net)

Equipment Trick (Rope - Hogtie)

Skill Points Requirements Only:
Acrobatics:

Janni Style (3): Charging penalty reduced to -1; flanking only provides a +1 bonus against you (also requires Perform (Dance) 3)

Monkey Style (5): Wisdom to Acrobatics; no penalty to attack or AC when prone; crawl and stand up w/o AoO, Swift Action Stand (DC 20 Acrobatics) (also requires Climb 5)

Snake Style (1) : Immediate action to use a Sense Motive check as AC against one attack you know (also requires Sense Motive 3)

Equipment Trick (Cloak: Parachute Cloak) (5)

Equipment Trick (Ladder: Vaulting Ladder) (3)

Climb:
Monkey Style (5): Wisdom to Acrobatics; no penalty to attack or AC when prone; crawl and stand up w/o AoO, Swift Action Stand (DC 20 Acrobatics) (also requires Acrobatics 5)

Equipment Trick (Anvil: Counterweight) (5)

Equipment Trick (Ladder: Vaulting Ladder) (3)

Equipment Trick (Rope - Lifeline) (5)

Craft (Alchemy)
Equipment Trick (Lantern : Intensified Oil) (3)

Equipment Trick (Sunrod : Flare) (3)

Equipment Trick (Sunrod : Twice As brightly) (3)

Escape Artist
Equipment Trick (Rope : Slip Away) (3)

Handle Animal
Equipment Trick (Sunrod : Lure) (5)

Intimidate
Boar Style (3): Slashing damage with unarmed strikes; 2d6 bonus damage if you hit an opponent twice with unarmed strikes

Knowledge (Arcana)
Kirin Style (6): Swift Action to take a Knowledge check to identify creature; +2 to savings throws and AC vs AoO once identified. (also requires Knowledge (Dungeoneering, Local, Nature, Planes, or Religion) 1)

Knowledge (Nature):
Wolf Style (3): Lower speed by 5 feet for 10 points of AoO damage; 5 more feet for every 5 damage beyond 10; free trip attempt if this negates all of their movement left

Knowledge (Religion):
Equipment Trick (Mirror - Bold Presentation) (5)

Sleight of Hand:
Equipment Trick (Mirror - Blinding Light) (3)

Equipment Trick (Rope - Coil) (5)

Spellcraft:
Equipment Trick (Mirror - Telltale Reflection) (3)

Equipment Trick (Wondrous Item - Counter Dispelling) (3)

Stealth:
Equipment Trick (Cloak - Distracting Cloak) (3)

use Magic Item:
Equipment Trick (Wondrous Item - Aura Mastery) (1)

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