Marcus Steelfeather
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So, at level 5 the Pact Wizard gets a Oracle Curse at 1/2 wizard level.
It even states that "If an oracle curse would add spells to the oracle’s list of spells known, the pact wizard instead add those spells to the wizard’s spell list as well as to his spellbook."
If I get the Curse of Lich (Curse of Corruption) from Horror Realms, I'll get Control Undead on my spellbook at level 10, this spell is a 7th Wizard/Sorcerer spell but it get's add to the Oracle List as a 2nd level spell.
Do I get Control Undead as a 2nd level spell or as a 7th level spell?
| Dasrak |
You'd get it as a 2nd level spell.
With that said, it's kinda useless for a Wizard since Wizards get access to the Command Undead spell as a 2nd level spell, and for some unfathomable reason the Command Undead spell is actually better than Control Undead. Okay, not completely useless but most of the time you're going to prefer Command Undead.
Ah, I'm pretty sure that this is a typo, the proper spell, I believe, would be "Command Undead"
Hard to say. Control Undead compares unfavorably against the 2nd level Command Undead spell, with its only real advantage being its ability to target multiple foes (Command Undead, however, has a duration measured in days rather than rounds and mindless undead don't get a save. That makes it way better in my books). Control Undead is grossly over-leveled as a 7th level spell even without Command Undead outclassing it. So this could actually be a sly author giving a spell level discount to make Control Undead more appealing when compared against its lower level counterpart.
| Sarzael |
I have already found numerous errors or poorly written abilities in Horror Realms. It may or may not be a good spell for its level, but do you really think someone would go ahead and say "Yeah this level seven spell is now level two but only for this class with this specific feature"? Just seems odd to me, compared to the likelihood that they may have simply confused a word. Command Undead is, after all, a level two spell.
| Dasrak |
I have already found numerous errors or poorly written abilities in Horror Realms. It may or may not be a good spell for its level, but do you really think someone would go ahead and say "Yeah this level seven spell is now level two but only for this class with this specific feature"? Just seems odd to me, compared to the likelihood that they may have simply confused a word. Command Undead is, after all, a level two spell.
I'm not discounting the possibility; it certainly does seem plausible that this was the intent. However, Control Undead is so underwhelming that it's entirely possible that the designers did decide to give it away as a 2nd level spell. It's just one of those spells that doesn't get used at all because it's assigned spell level is just drastically out of line, so this actually makes it a very good candidate to be discounted heavily by certain character options.
| Sarzael |
It's also not the only case of a spell being given at a lower level. The Solar Bloodline gives the sorcerer Searing Ray as a 1st level spell.
I'm not finding any "Solar" bloodline anywhere, and the Oracle doesn't get Scorching(?) Ray. Still, the difference between a level one spell and a level two isn't really the same. The main issue with lowering spell level in specific circumstances is that it lowers the market price of the spell, just like the Summoner did.
| Dasrak |
Still, the difference between a level one spell and a level two isn't really the same.
The actual spell level difference isn't particularly relevant, it's a matter of what the spell's actual effect is. Control Undead simply isn't out of line with existing options at 2nd level.
It's a bit like those silly late-night infomercials; "that's over $200 in value for only three easy payments of $19.99". Only suckers believe that the junk being peddled was actually worth 200 bucks and that they're getting a $140 discount. Chances are they're overpaying even at $60. That's Control Undead; just because it says it's a 7th level spell doesn't mean it's justified as a 7th level spell. With Command Undead serving as a reference point, Control Undead really does look like a 2nd level spell (although to be perfectly honest I think Command Undead has the opposite problem and is underpriced as a 2nd level spell, but so long as it exists it's setting the precedent)
| Sarzael |
Yes, but that being the case, it'd warrant an overall change to the spell, don't you believe it so?
It seems more plausible to me that it was simply an error, rather than it being some stealthy attempt at making a particular spell good for a particular class that makes a particular choice, because at that point it'd just be easier to flat out change the whole spell.
| Garbage-Tier Waifu |
Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:It's also not the only case of a spell being given at a lower level. The Solar Bloodline gives the sorcerer Searing Ray as a 1st level spell.I'm not finding any "Solar" bloodline anywhere, and the Oracle doesn't get Scorching(?) Ray. Still, the difference between a level one spell and a level two isn't really the same. The main issue with lowering spell level in specific circumstances is that it lowers the market price of the spell, just like the Summoner did.
The bloodline is in the most recent Qadira setting book, but for some reason it's still not up on any of the main 3rd party sites despite being available for almost a year.
| Dasrak |
Yes, but that being the case, it'd warrant an overall change to the spell, don't you believe it so?
It's a core spell that was directly converted from 3.5; Paizo never touched their spell levels out of backwards compatibility concerns. It's a legacy holdover that is unlikely to ever change.
I would like to see some of the more flavorful but underpowered spells get updated versions, but it seems published spells are just left as they are, and only revisited if they prove to be broken in some capacity. Stuff that's just underpowered is left alone.