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Does an armor's environmental protections work during extreme heat/cold temperatures? The armor rules seem to imply yes at first:
"Armor’s environmental protections reasonably protect you against both cold (temperatures below –20° F) and heat (air temperatures over 140° F)."
But is followed by:
"This does not protect against cold or fire damage from other sources or against environments that deal damage without allowing a Fortitude saving throw"
And in the case of (for example) extreme cold temperature:
"Extreme cold (below –20° F) deals 1d6 lethal cold damage per minute (no saving throw)."
Does this mean even with environmental protection we still take 1d6 lethal cold damage per minute in temperatures below –20° F? My gut feeling is no because that would mean that even with sci-fi armor, first level characters couldn't survive more than a few minutes on Antarctica. They would be even worse off on a cold day on Mars. Still, I'd like to know what others think of this.
...time passess...
I know this is an old post, but it seemed to be most relevant to what I was searching.
I suspect there is a typo in the rules
Armor’s environmental protections reasonably protect you against both cold (temperatures below –20° F) and heat (air temperatures over 140° F).
I think this should have read
Armor’s environmental protections reasonably protect you against both cold (temperatures above –20° F) and heat (air temperatures below 140° F).
Also, there should be armor upgrades that give extended thermal and cryo protections (added to separate upgrade slots) that add varying levels of heat resistance. Maybe up to the super-deluxe Mk 4 level 20 armor that lets you scuba dive in lava for short periods for only 5 million credits. (I envision the really high end stuff only plays into the story line if a government research lab will lend it to the PC for some sufficiently important mission.)
According to NASA its -457.87 on average in empty space.
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Yeah there's something weird going on there. The thermal capacitor armor upgrade "protects" you:
This upgrade regulates heat, protecting you from extreme temperatures. You can exist comfortably in conditions between –50° and 170° F without needing to attempt Fortitude saves. In addition, the armor grants cold resistance and fire resistance. The amount depends on the capacitor’s type, as listed below.
* Mk 1: Resistance 5
* Mk 2: Resistance 10
* Mk 3: Resistance 15
However, that doesn't really match up with the environmental cold rules:
Cold and exposure deal nonlethal damage to the victim. A character can’t recover from the damage dealt by a cold environment until she gets out of the cold and warms up again. An unprotected character in cold weather (below 40° F) must succeed at a Fortitude save each hour (DC = 15 + 1 per previous check) or take 1d6 nonlethal cold damage. A character can attempt Survival skill checks to gain a bonus to this saving throw and might be able to apply this bonus to other characters as well (see page 148).
In conditions of severe cold (below 0° F), an unprotected character must succeed at a Fortitude save every 10 minutes (DC = 15 + 1 per previous check) or take 1d6 nonlethal cold damage. A character can attempt Survival skill checks to gain a bonus to this saving throw and might be able to apply this bonus to other characters as well.
Extreme cold (below –20° F) deals 1d6 lethal cold damage per minute (no saving throw). In addition, a character must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC = 15 + 1 per previous check) each minute or take 1d4 nonlethal cold damage. Colder environments can deal more damage at the GM’s discretion.
So either armor (seems the intent) or the thermal capacitor (definitely) protects you up to -20F. At -21F to -50F the thermal capacitor takes away the need to roll the save against nonlethal damage, but it provides 5 resistance against 1d6 lethal cold damage per minute. And at -51F... it would still negate the nonlethal cold damage since it's a separate instance and 1d4 nonlethal cold will never penetrate 5 cold resistance.
The Mk2 capacitor of course protects you completely from environmental cold.
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As for the cold of space: while space is indeed very cold, vacuum is also fairly insulating, so it's a little easier to protect against than for example immersion in coolant. Hence why a spacesuit can protect you against space vacuum cold while not helping if you fall into a vat of liquid nitrogen (which is warmer than empty space).
Thanks Ascalphus for pointing out the Thermal Capacitor, I had overlooked that in my research. I agree with your interpretation of the rules.
This upgrade does not mention any power requirements. Would this upgrade provide its benefit even if the suit's native environmental protections were switched off? That is, if the suit has run out of battery power, would this upgrade still provide protection? As a GM I'm inclined to say a Thermal Capacitor needs the armor's environmental protection to be enabled to provide any benefit. I think there needs to be some power for electronics to regulate it's operation (same with Sonic Dampener).
Shield type upgrades list a capacity and usage just before the text of their descriptions, this makes sense since they are high energy devices. Other upgrades like the Targeting Computer don't list any energy usage, but my intuition tells me that there needs to be power in the armor's batteries to run this, even though it doesn't draw any significant charge (and it operates independently of whether or not the Environmental Protection is enabled).
Other upgrades such as Tensile Strength Reinforcement and Deflective Reinforcement strike me as not needing power from the suit's battery. As a GM I think I'd rule these are still fully effective even if the suit's batteries are dead.
The Filtered Rebreather, a 4600 credit level 6 upgrade, provides 6 weeks of fresh air--and then what? Because of the duration stated, it implies to me it isn't using the suit's batteries, but after 6 weeks it needs maintenance to clean and refurbish it. As a GM I think I'd rule the maintenance takes 10 minutes and costs 10% of the original price, unless you've been using it in a corrosive atmosphere, in which case it costs 50% of the original purchase price for the maintenance.
Since some of the other upgrades appear to need power and some don't, the Thermal Capacitor's energy requirements seem ambiguous.
Our GM has come up with a really creative solution for dealing with these problems.
He never opens that Pandora's box.
I know it may seem like it's strange having no 'space' adventures in a game with Starships and space stations, but these are the types of things where players and GM's can REALLY get bogged down in the hearsay of the game and it makes a LOT of the experience just.. not fun.
The cardinal rule of role-playing games is to have fun. If you have to gerrymander a whole set of rules for environmental effects it can really detract from the fun of the game as you have to introduce the rules to the players and then get them to agree that they are useful.
As far as Pantshandshake saying that you can survive in space without a suit for a surprising long time, define surprising long time? Last I read, you have about 14-15 seconds before all the oxygen in your blood is used up and you pass out. Also, holding your breath is a short path to dying faster as the vacuum in space will cause your lungs to expand and push air bubbles in to your blood vessels killing you from an embolism. I guess your wouldn't be technically brain dead for another 90 seconds to 3 minutes from asphyxiation, but that's not a very long time and that would require other people to reel you in and revive you.
Indeed.
I watched a video some months ago where Chris Hadfield was debunking some space myths. Space is a VERY inhospitable place. Not conducive to the long term health of .. well.. anything :)
I highly recommend his video. When there is a star nearby (like in the orbit of our earth) you have to really worry about the solar radiation as well. You can cook if you are facing the sun while you freeze on ur back.
And all the liquid on ur body boils instantly in space.. which.. your eyes and mouth won't really enjoy. Yea.. not a fan of space too much. Gimme sunny Malibu any day :)
Our GM has come up with a really creative solution for dealing with these problems.
He never opens that Pandora's box.
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There's something to be said for not drifting too far from the rules as written. I'm GMing Dead Suns for a group of mostly engineering type players. They are about to encounter the Castrovel jungle heat portion in book 2, so I know they will be asking about how to deal with these things. If they try to buy equipment intelligently, then I wanted to have some options available. I try to anticipate what they will look for, but they may do something totally different, as players often do. Just trying to think of these things in advance so I'm not muddling through it during gameplay.
I also don't mind discarding my house rules if Paizo makes some new rules in this area.
That's a bunch of neat house rules you made there.
Thanks, just trying to extrapolate from the existing rules to cover more cases.
Public fast charge stations in the rules cost 50% of an original battery's price for a full charge, replenishing 10 charges per minute. CRB p.234 also mentions free options that replenish 1 charge per minute (in better hotel rooms, upgraded starships). Also, mechanics get 10 minutes of fiddling with their drone during 10 minute rests, and armor upgrades take 10 minutes to install/deinstall. So I'd think the general cost and time for refurbishing things like filtered rebreathers would be similar.