Does +20 modifier to notice an invisible creature stack with the +10 modifier for the creature making the check being asleep?
Does it matter to the sleeping creature whether the creature to notice is invisible or not?
Is the sleeping creature able to make vision-based checks at all? (If not, then every other creature is effectively invisible to it.)
Not sure how this goes by RAW, but by commonsense I would say invisibility doesn't help you avoid waking a sleeping creature. Said creature can't see while asleep anyway, so it can only make sound or scent based checks at the -10 penalty.
That being said, invisibility might save you from arousing the creature's attention once it wakes up. If a creature hears a floorboard creak in his bedroom and awakes with a start, but sees an empty room, he might assume the house was just settling or he dreamed the noise.
That's how I would rule it anyway.
I hoped to get more opinions before I say how I thought to calculate it, but here it goes:
I think that the +20 modifier from being invisisible is what describes the lack of sight. As in: while it's DC 0 to see a creature and sight pinpoints its location automatically, it's DC 20 to sense said creature, and DC 40 to pinpoint its location with only other senses.
Sleeping creature doesn't use sight, so the DCs should start at 20. And since the creature's attention is focused on the dreamworld, it's the additional +10.
So the base DC to hear a creature while asleep is 30. There are multiple modifiers to that though, that can be found in the description of Invisibility special ability: -20 when creature is talking, -10 when it's moving at full speed etc.
So for example the check to hear a creature talking next to when you sleep would have DC 10. But if the creature is sneaking up to you, it would be 30+Stealth result.
I'd like to ask everyone if you think that is correct.
Strictly by the rules the answer is yes, but being invisible doesn't make much logical sense.
PS: I would just say they overlap and/or just move the sleeping penalty up to 20.
20+Stealth result is the DC of noticing a sneaking invisible creature when you are awake, and wary. 25+Stealth result is the DC when you're awake and distracted. It seems logical to me that it should be even harder if you're asleep.
And since it doesn't matter if the creature is invisible or not when you're sleeping, the DC to notice a visible creature when sleeping should be the same as to notice the invisible creature when sleeping. So 30+Stealth seems logical, though I admit it also seems high.
If we're talking about changing the rules from RAW, I'd rather reduce the DC to notice an invisible creature using Stealth. As it is now, as long as the sneaking creature roll more than 20 on the Stealth roll (which isn't hard even for 1st lvl characters), it is harder to notice when it's sneaking than when it's standing completely still (DC 40). The base DC to notice an invisible creature moving at half speed is 15, so 15+Stealth check would look more logical to me.
If you're sleep it won't matter if something can be seen or not because if your eyes are closed you can't see it anyway.
It is not much different than a blind person not caring if something is invisible or not.
Basically the invis penalty being less than the penalty for sleeping should not be a thing.
Like I said in another post the reason for the penalty being less is because the rules were copy and pasted from 3.5, but in 3.5 perception was not one skill. It was 2 skills, spot and listen. The -10 was go the listen check. Invisibility should have been called to only bypass the visual aspect of a perception check.
|
The problem with invisibility is RAW... Gives +20 stealth. Then invisibility really is indetectability, cause a full plated invisible cavalier is stealthy like an nude elf with elf boots.
If a check is required, a stationary invisible creature has a +40 bonus on its Stealth checks. This bonus is reduced to +20 if the creature is moving.
I should rule the bonus are only visual stealth. Not for listen but raw stealth is just stealth
I am in favor of separating visual and auditory checks, but it requires more work. For example the DC to spot a sneaking creature shouldn't be the same as DC to notice it without using sight.
I believe that if the bonus given by invisibility should be equal to the intended difference between those two DCs. (The DC to notice an invisible creature should be the same as to notice a visible creature without using sight). And 20 does seem like a too big of a difference.