Hi all
I'm pretty sure the answer to this question will be something like "RAW no, but RAI is unclear".
Basically I'm stumped by the Corset of Dire Witchcraft and the Coven hex. Both mention caster level when it comes to hexes, but it seems like the number of hexes that actually use caster level are few and far between.
(Emphasis mine)
I've seen that this has been brought up before, but I couldn't see anyone raising the Coven hex's mention of caster level and that it specifically says "all" of her hexes.
That said, I've also spotted that some hexes specifically call out "class level" whereas other just say "level". Aura of Purity even says both "level" and then "class level".
- Are we sure they aren't supposed to be different? Is it perhaps saying "level" the same way spell descriptions have been shortened to say "level" when they mean "caster level"?
Just to be clear, it's only the functional elements of the hex's I think may be related to caster level. I'm fully aware that the DCs are strictly 1/2 "witch level" aka "class level".
Sussed it and thought I'd share for anyone else hunting an answer.
As touched upon in the multiclassing section of the rules, hexes are based on the class level of the witch unless otherwise stated.
(again, emphasis mine)
The only time caster level comes into play for hexes is when the hex imitates a spell with a strength (not duration) dependent on caster level (i.e. cure light wounds and bestow curse).
The odd one out is Dire Prophecy which doesn't imitate a spell but is dependent on caster level, but given what it does I'm happy as is!
So Corset of Dire Witchcraft is pretty poor and the "Dire" aspect is really only useful for Harrowing Curse and Dire Prophecy.
Coven is awesome regardless, so my only issue is that it probably shouldn't say "all" hexes.
Case closed.
It is simpler than that. I know from an editing standpoint, to get abilities to neatly fit on a page there is someone who goes through and cuts little words here and there out so we end up with tons of inconsistent language. Somewhere in my rules reading I stumbled upon a developer saying just this very thing and that players had a tendency to be over-technical. Then they said not every word is a game term hehe.
Think of it this way, all hexes have a caster level equal to your witch level, so the corset increases any one of your hexes as if you were two levels higher, and the coven hex lets you use aid another to increase another witches caster level for both spells and hexes by one (or vice versa).
Doesn't have to imitate a spell. They are both good. :)
Think of it this way, all hexes have a caster level equal to your witch level, so the corset increases any one of your hexes as if you were two levels higher, and the coven hex lets you use aid another to increase another witches caster level for both spells and hexes by one (or vice versa).
Yep, this is correct. However that still only affects hexes that specifically mention caster level.
As quoted in my previous post, the rules say that class abilities (such as hexes) are based on class levels unless otherwise noted.
Whilst caster levels are initially derived from class levels, it is still a separate term to class level.
So, unless specifically mentioned, we must assume general references to "level" in class abilities relate solely to levels in that class. That's how it works for other classes and the witch is no exception.
Those are worded badly. Hexes are supernatural abilities, and don't have caster levels. It should have said something like "the witch counts as being 2 level higher for the purpose of ..."
That matters because "casting" requires caster levels, and only spells and SLA's are cast, and they have certain limitations that SU's do not.
Even when an SU emulates a spell it will say something similar to treat your character level as your caster level to determine how effective the spell is, but it still is not giving you actual caster levels. It is just letting you know how to determine effects of the ability that are normally decided by actual caster levels.
Now, some SU's grant SLA's. I would say those are cast since you are actually using an SLA, not just emulating one.
It works I promise. :) increase duration/effectiveness etc by the appropriate amount for all of the hexes regardless of if they emulate a spell or not.
It's not the proper way to word the effect, but these options refer to hexes that use your caster level to determine the effect.
Those are worded badly. Hexes are supernatural abilities, and don't have caster levels. It should have said something like "the witch counts as being 2 level higher for the purpose of ..."
That matters because "casting" requires caster levels, and only spells and SLA's are cast, and they have certain limitations that SU's do not.
Even when an SU emulates a spell it will say something similar to treat your character level as your caster level to determine how effective the spell is, but it still is not giving you actual caster levels. It is just letting you know how to determine effects of the ability that are normally decided by actual caster levels.
Now, some SU's grant SLA's. I would say those are cast since you are actually using an SLA, not just emulating one.
I agree 100% and will be approaching my GM with that exact wording for the Corset.
As for Coven, I wish they had worded it better but since I'm getting it for the boost to the spells I'm not so fussed.
"Spanner-In-The-Works, I choose you!"
Why Split Major Hex? Why?!
Why couldn't you be like Split Hex and specifically state "Witch level" instead?
Does this mean if I have a Caster Level boost that lasts at least 24 hrs (eg: +1 from Orange Prism Ioun Stone and +5 from attunement to a major Ley Line) I can take this feat early?
If only Corset of Dire Witchcraft could allow us to take this Feat even earlier...
They've been arguing about that one since 2011.