Star Shaman Pilots

[Smite Makes Right]

A Mystic's channel skill bonus does not state that it affects starship skill checks, but should it? Since Walk the Void is separate from Channel Skill, it may have been an oversight.

It seems that without the bonus applying to piloting a starship or assisting with piloting, the bonus will almost never come up.

[Wikrin]

It definitely should. I think the whole issue of class features not affecting star combat checks is just weird. I can't imagine they intended for the passives to suddenly not matter, unless they decided to go the worst possible route toward making any class able to fill any role. Like, the person that is better at piloting should be better at piloting ships.

And if anyone tries to say this makes Skill Focus better, they're a terrible person. Just abominable.

[Melkiador]

I don't see any general rule saying to not apply skill bonuses. They are only ignored in special cases like gunnery checks and determining the ship AC bonus.

[someweirdguy]

I'm pretty sure the caveat about abilities not affecting star combat actions is to prevent an Envoy from giving extra actions, a mechanic from empowering shields, etc.

Regardless, the Channel Skill and other such bonuses modify your skill check and not the specific space combat action, and as such shouldn't fall under that rule.

[Melkiador]

Would someone quote this rule or at least list the page number. I'm not finding it.

[Smite Makes Right]

Page 322, Actions under Crew Actions: Class features and items affect crew actions only if specifically noted in the class feature or item.

[Deadmanwalking]

Smite Makes Right wrote:

Page 322, Actions under Crew Actions: Class features and items affect crew actions only if specifically noted in the class feature or item.

Personally, I would not interpret that as effecting blanket skill bonuses. It is ambiguous, though.

[Melkiador]

I think I'm just hoping it's ambiguous, because the alternative is ridiculous. It could use a FAQ, just because of how silly it is as apparently written.

[pauljathome]

There is another thread duscussing this. You might want to FAQ it
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ujg2?Starship-Combat-Im-confused#1

[Melkiador]

linkified
I FAQed it. Hopefully we can get a quick response of some kind. But if the star shaman's skill channel doesn't apply to ships, then he's in serious need of a compensatory buff.

[Xynen]

Was there ever an answer to this?

[Metaphysician]

*cough* Connection Skills don't effect crew actions. Connection Skills effect *the Mystic himself*. The ability has no effect on the action as such.

Same for other skill buffs, they effect the character, not the action. Whereas, say, using an Envoy improv to grant an extra standard action does nothing. . . because in ship combat, *nobody* is using standard actions.

[Xenocrat]

I have sadly come to realize that Star Shamans probably aren't the best pilots, because most mystics aren't going to put Dex as their absolute priority the same way that Operatives are.

[Deadmanwalking]

Xenocrat wrote:

I have sadly come to realize that Star Shamans probably aren't the best pilots, because most mystics aren't going to put Dex as their absolute priority the same way that Operatives are.

At Dex 14 or more they still wind up at equal to the Operative at high levels.

And a Dex 18/Wis 14 Mystic focusing on utility and healing spells and grabbing Longarm Proficiency is a very valid build.

[captain yesterday]

My wife actually did put her highest roll in dexterity (16 with ace pilot theme) with a wisdom of 14 I believe.

[Barbarossa Rotbart]

Metaphysician wrote:

*cough* Connection Skills don't effect crew actions. Connection Skills effect *the Mystic himself*. The ability has no effect on the action as such.

Same for other skill buffs, they effect the character, not the action. Whereas, say, using an Envoy improv to grant an extra standard action does nothing. . . because in ship combat, *nobody* is using standard actions.

Sorry, but I do not understand this answer. Does the fact that they affect the character and not the crew mean that the different skill boni (class, racial, insight etc.) count in space combat or that they are ignored?

[Deadmanwalking]

Barbarossa Rotbart wrote:

Metaphysician wrote:

*cough* Connection Skills don't effect crew actions. Connection Skills effect *the Mystic himself*. The ability has no effect on the action as such.

Same for other skill buffs, they effect the character, not the action. Whereas, say, using an Envoy improv to grant an extra standard action does nothing. . . because in ship combat, *nobody* is using standard actions.

Sorry, but I do not understand this answer. Does the fact that they affect the character and not the crew mean that the different skill boni (class, racial, insight etc.) count in space combat or that they are ignored?

It means they count.

[Metaphysician]

Yep. They don't effect space combat, or crew actions. They effect the character.

Note that trying to interpret otherwise leads to absurd outcomes like "none of your skills apply in space", since your skill point supply and favored skills *are also class features*.