Hello, space cowboys. I finally cracked open the core rulebook today to build a punch-happy Strength-based Android Armor Storm Soldier. I know Vesks are the best at punching, but since I can't play a robot like I wanted for Starfinder <grumbles> I'm gonna make due with Androids. But I'm currently stumped by a particular detail with the Hammer Fist ability.
abilities that apply specifically to unarmed attacks (such as the Improved Unarmed Strike feat).
It doesn't state what specific type of battleglove to use with the unarmed attack, but I'm thinking it's a safe assumption at level 1 it ought to be the Cestus Battleglove (item level 1).
But at level 10, do I then get the option to use the Power Battleglove (item level 10) stats and its Powered weapon property because the Hammer Fist's battleglove attack would be considered item level 10? I'm not sure what else Hammer Fist would be using item level for as I don't suspect that the heavy or powered armor's fist is supposed to gain an increase in hardness and hit points for that specific attack and resets back to normal after attack/damage rolls are resolved.
But I'm REALLY fresh on all things Starfinder and probably missing something obvious. I'm totally cool with using the Cestus Battleglove for all of the Armor Storm's levels with Hammer Fist if that's how it works, but I just want to make sure I'm not missing out on options since if focusing on unarmed strikes with a non-strength based race (i.e. not Vesk) I should ensure I know what all optimization options are to keep up with others. Any insight would be appreciated. I want to get past this piece of confusing (to me anyways) rules jargon and finish up my Rock 'Em Sock 'Em Robot for upcoming Starfinder Society games.
ALSO! Apologies if this was already answered previously. The forums' search function is borked right now and I went back several pages in Starfinder forums and tried a localized Google search on the topic but couldn't find anything.
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its actually a question worth asking.
I had initially taken it as meaning that it could be a Power Battleglove or any of the other forms as it reached appropriate level, but the reading that that sets the level for things like hardness and more importantly fusions instead or in addition definitely seems viable.
My instinct is both, but I don't know and as always I expect the worst.
From the wording of Hammer Fist, the battleglove's increased item level would only happen and last during the attack though, so I don't think weapon fusions would be applicable unless it could be applied right when the attack occurs.
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There are currently only 4 battlegloves available right now, though I'm sure there will be more in later books.
From Soldier levels 1 through 9, you're considered to have a cestus battleglove, and at level 10 it jumps to a power battleglove.
Owen Stephens, the Starfinder design lead, mentioned in another forum (link: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ujhx?Armor-Storm-Threaten ) that you should threaten squares with this ability, despite the wording being that you only "treat any unarmed attack you make while wearing
heavy or powered armor as being made with a battleglove"
A question I'd like answered is how the ability interacts with other unarmed strike abilities. Despite Hammer Fist ability saying it doesn't benefit from other abilities, Improved Unarmed Strike feat makes more sense up until level 10.
Also, how does the ability work with the Pulse Gauntlet? It seems the Gauntlet has the same problem in Starfinder as it does in Pathfinder- does it count as using an unarmed strike? If so, does the Pulse Gauntlet benefit from the bonus damage gained from the Hammer Fist ability?
*Edit: Looking back at the numbers, it looks like Imp. Unarmed Strike only out-damages a Melee Striker gear boosted Armor Storm soldier at levels 8 and 9. Still, it seems odd that other unarmed strike abilities can't work with Hammer Fist.
There are currently only 4 battlegloves available right now, though I'm sure there will be more in later books.
From Soldier levels 1 through 9, you're considered to have a cestus battleglove, and at level 10 it jumps to a power battleglove.
Owen Stephens, the Starfinder design lead, mentioned in another forum (link: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ujhx?Armor-Storm-Threaten ) that you should threaten squares with this ability, despite the wording being that you only "treat any unarmed attack you make while wearing
heavy or powered armor as being made with a battleglove"
If it uses the stats of Power/Nova/Gravity battlegloves, does it have the Powered properties and only good for 20 minutes per day? If so how does that get recharged? If not, shouldn't such a case be stated somewhere?
A question I'd like answered is how the ability interacts with other unarmed strike abilities. Despite Hammer Fist ability saying it doesn't benefit from other abilities, Improved Unarmed Strike feat makes more sense up until level 10.
Also, how does the ability work with the Pulse Gauntlet? It seems the Gauntlet has the same problem in Starfinder as it does in Pathfinder- does it count as using an unarmed strike? If so, does the Pulse Gauntlet benefit from the bonus damage gained from the Hammer Fist ability?*Edit: Looking back at the numbers, it looks like Imp. Unarmed Strike only out-damages a Melee Striker gear boosted Armor Storm soldier at levels 8 and 9. Still, it seems odd that other unarmed strike abilities can't work with Hammer Fist.
Well Improved Unarmed Strike would still have issue of enhancing an archaic unarmed strike which would reduce damage by significant amount in low-mid levels if target's wearing non-archaic armor.
Also Pulse gauntlet and a non-Armor Storm Hammer Fist looks to work the same way, without using unarmed attack rules at all and you'd just use it as a melee weapon.
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If it uses the stats of Power/Nova/Gravity battlegloves, does it have the Powered properties and only good for 20 minutes per day? If so how does that get recharged? If not, shouldn't such a case be stated somewhere?There are currently only 4 battlegloves available right now, though I'm sure there will be more in later books.
From Soldier levels 1 through 9, you're considered to have a cestus battleglove, and at level 10 it jumps to a power battleglove.
Owen Stephens, the Starfinder design lead, mentioned in another forum (link: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ujhx?Armor-Storm-Threaten ) that you should threaten squares with this ability, despite the wording being that you only "treat any unarmed attack you make while wearing
heavy or powered armor as being made with a battleglove"
I don't see why it would have the powered property, as you're only calculating weapon damage as if wearing a power battleglove. That said, I personally would rule that it still has the powered property but uses the powered armor as its source for charges, though it doesn't use additional charges from the powered armor.
A question I'd like answered is how the ability interacts with other unarmed strike abilities. Despite Hammer Fist ability saying it doesn't benefit from other abilities, Improved Unarmed Strike feat makes more sense up until level 10.
Also, how does the ability work with the Pulse Gauntlet? It seems the Gauntlet has the same problem in Starfinder as it does in Pathfinder- does it count as using an unarmed strike? If so, does the Pulse Gauntlet benefit from the bonus damage gained from the Hammer Fist ability?*Edit: Looking back at the numbers, it looks like Imp. Unarmed Strike only out-damages a Melee Striker gear boosted Armor Storm soldier at levels 8 and 9. Still, it seems odd that other unarmed strike abilities can't work with Hammer Fist.
Well Improved Unarmed Strike would still have issue of enhancing an archaic unarmed strike which would reduce damage by significant amount in low-mid levels if target's wearing non-archaic armor.Also Pulse gauntlet and a non-Armor Storm Hammer Fist looks to work the same way, without using unarmed attack rules at all and you'd just use it as a melee weapon.
I think you're right in this regard, until someone clarifies in an FAQ about the use of Unarmed Strike.
I don't see why it would have the powered property, as you're only calculating weapon damage as if wearing a power battleglove. That said, I personally would rule that it still has the powered property but uses the powered armor as its source for charges, though it doesn't use additional charges from the powered armor.
Because the Power Battleglove, as written, only does 2d8 damage when it's powered and when it doesn't have any charges left it's treated as an improvised weapon?
And drawing power from Powered Armor could make sense, doesn't help with Heavy Armor.
Hmm I'm starting to think Hammer Fist doesn't work when the soldier uses an actual purchased battleglove (such as when buying an adamantine one). That'd be too bad.
Maybe I'm not thinking about the enough.
This ability seems fairly simple.
When using only the gauntlet on your armor you have the following:
-Damage die based on your level battleglove
-x1 1/2 str mod to damage
-Threaten adjacent squares
-Maybe an additional +2 to damage with Melee Striker.
-You can't use Unarmed Strike abilities or feats.
There might be a case as to whether or not your Hammer Fist gains the extra critical abilities (if any) of the higher level Battle gloves.
Your fists do not need a battery nor use up charges from your armor.
I think that you will always get the +2 damage from Melee Striker on attacks from Hammer Fist. So basically at first level an attack with Hammer Fist (assuming you are wearing heavy armor and have an 18 Str.) would be D4 +6 damage, yes?
I think that you will always get the +2 damage from Melee Striker on attacks from Hammer Fist. So basically at first level an attack with Hammer Fist (assuming you are wearing heavy armor and have an 18 Str.) would be D4 +6 damage, yes?
Not exactly. You benefit as if you had Melee Striker at level 1 with Hammer Fist, so you add half your Strength modifier to your Hammer Fist battleglove attack (In your Strength 18 example case it is +2, but Strength 16 would only be +1).
At level 3 you can pick up Melee Striker gear boost so it applies the half Strength bonus to all melee weapons, THEN Hammer Fist would get an additional +2 damage bonus.
So when you use battle glove attacks you don't get to add your str. modifier to damage like other melee weapons? I was confused by this.
I was looking in the book on how to apply damage for unarmed attacks but I Can't find anything. Heck they don't even have "unarmed attacks" in the glossary.
I think that you will always get the +2 damage from Melee Striker on attacks from Hammer Fist. So basically at first level an attack with Hammer Fist (assuming you are wearing heavy armor and have an 18 Str.) would be D4 +6 damage, yes?Not exactly. You benefit as if you had Melee Striker at level 1 with Hammer Fist, so you add half your Strength modifier to your Hammer Fist battleglove attack (In your Strength 18 example case it is +2, but Strength 16 would only be +1).
At level 3 you can pick up Melee Striker gear boost so it applies the half Strength bonus to all melee weapons, THEN Hammer Fist would get an additional +2 damage bonus.
I don't get it. When you attack with a melee weapon you add str bonus to damage. So with melee striker would you add str. bonus PLUS half str. bonus? Assuming str. was 18 that would be +6.
So when you use battle glove attacks you don't get to add your str. modifier to damage like other melee weapons? I was confused by this.
You do. You add your Strength modifier to damage with all melee attacks. Strengh 18 = +4 modifier.
Melee Striker gear boost lets one add half Strength modifier IN ADDITION to regular Strength modifier.
Examples:
Armor Storm gets to benefit AS IF they have the Melee Striker gear boost only with their Hammer Fist battleglove. HOWEVER if they actually pick up the Melee Striker gear boost (soonest they can do that is level 3), they add half their Strength modifier to ALL melee attacks, not just the Hammer Fist battleglove. ALSO in order to prevent the Hammer Fist from being redundant, once the Armor Storm Soldier has the Melee Striker gear boost, they get another +2 bonus to Hammer Fist battleglove damage.
I was looking in the book on how to apply damage for unarmed attacks but I Can't find anything. Heck they don't even have "unarmed attacks" in the glossary.
It's the first basic melee one-handed weapon in the Table 7-1 in page 171.
So when you use battle glove attacks you don't get to add your str. modifier to damage like other melee weapons? I was confused by this.You do. You add your Strength modifier to damage with all melee attacks. Strengh 18 = +4 modifier.
Melee Striker gear boost lets one add half Strength modifier IN ADDITION to regular Strength modifier.
Examples:
Strength 16 + Melee Striker gear = +3 Str mod AND +1 half-Strength mod (round down) = +4.
Strength 18 + Melee Striker gear = +4 Str mod AND +2 half-Strength mod = +6.
Strength 20 + Melee Striker gear = +5 Str mod AND +2 half-Strength mod = +7.
Strength 22 + Melee Striker gear = +6 Str mod AND +3 half-Strength mod = +9. Armor Storm gets to benefit AS IF they have the Melee Striker gear boost only with their Hammer Fist battleglove. HOWEVER if they actually pick up the Melee Striker gear boost (soonest they can do that is level 3), they add half their Strength modifier to ALL melee attacks, not just the Hammer Fist battleglove. ALSO in order to prevent the Hammer Fist from being redundant, once the Armor Storm Soldier has the Melee Striker gear boost, they get another +2 bonus to Hammer Fist battleglove damage.
Ok cool. That is what I thought. The only thing that threw me was when looking at the Vesk (pg 52) it says, "Vesk gain a unique weapon specialization with their natural weapons at 3rd level, allowing them to add 1-1/2x their character level to their damage rolls for their natural weapons (instead of just adding their character level, as usual)."
What does that mean? as usual? Wouldn't you just add your str. modifier?
You still would add your Strength modifier to melee attacks. That's the default rule. Something would specifically have to state you don't add it for one not to.
I'm assuming you haven't seen the Weapon Specialization feat that everyone gets at 3rd level yet.
For every weapon but small arms and operative melee weapons, Weapon Specialzation lets one add a bonus to damage equal to character level. Small arms and operative melee weapons only add half. This damage bonus is IN ADDITION to Strength bonus. Each class gets to apply Weapon Specialization to whatever weapon groups their class granted proficiency with (well I'm generalizing there. I believe they all do that based on proficiency but I could be wrong as I skimmed non-Soldiers).
For Vesks, they get a special Weapon Specialization dealing 1.5 x Character Level that they get add on top of their Strength bonus for their unarmed strikes.
For example Level 10 (nice even number for calculation) Vesk would deal 1d3 + Strength bonus + 15 Weapon Specialization (1.5 x 10 levels).
If it's a Vesk Soldier with Melee Striker gear boost, they'd add half their Strength bonus on top of all the regular stuff. If that Vesk has Improved Unarmed Strike feat, their unarmed strike damage dice goes up too.
Vesk's special Weapon Specialization wouldn't work with Armor Storm's Hammer Fist though because Hammer Fist doesn't benefit from other effects applying to unarmed strikes.
You still would add your Strength modifier to melee attacks. That's the default rule. Something would specifically have to state you don't add it for one not to.
I'm assuming you haven't seen the Weapon Specialization feat that everyone gets at 3rd level yet.
For every weapon but small arms and operative melee weapons, Weapon Specialzation lets one add a bonus to damage equal to character level. Small arms and operative melee weapons only add half. This damage bonus is IN ADDITION to Strength bonus. Each class gets to apply Weapon Specialization to whatever weapon groups their class granted proficiency with (well I'm generalizing there. I believe they all do that based on proficiency but I could be wrong as I skimmed non-Soldiers).
For Vesks, they get a special Weapon Specialization dealing 1.5 x Character Level that they get add on top of their Strength bonus for their unarmed strikes.
For example Level 10 (nice even number for calculation) Vesk would deal 1d3 + Strength bonus + 15 Weapon Specialization (1.5 x 10 levels).
If it's a Vesk Soldier with Melee Striker gear boost, they'd add half their Strength bonus on top of all the regular stuff. If that Vesk has Improved Unarmed Strike feat, their unarmed strike damage dice goes up too.Vesk's special Weapon Specialization wouldn't work with Armor Storm's Hammer Fist though because Hammer Fist doesn't benefit from other effects applying to unarmed strikes.
OK, Thank you Protoman. Now I totally get it. Yes I was not thinking of weapon specialization.