Bull Rush and Attacks of Opportunity

[HidaOWin]

If my Solarion Bull Rushes (pg246) a Goblin and successfully moves the Goblin back 5 feet, moving him out of my threatened space. Do I get an Attack of Opportunity using my reaction? (pg248)

I'm struggling to find anything that prevents it.

[Angus_The_Bounty_Hunter]

HidaOWin wrote:

If my Solarion Bull Rushes (pg246) a Goblin and successfully moves the Goblin back 5 feet, moving him out of my threatened space. Do I get an Attack of Opportunity using my reaction? (pg248)

I'm struggling to find anything that prevents it.

Pg. 248 reactions "A reaction is a special melee attack you can take even if it is not your turn, but only after a defined and concrete trigger."

Further down
1. "When you threaten a space and the opponent moves out of that space in any other way than a guarded step.. or withdraw action."
2."When the opponent in a space you threaten makes a ranged attack"
3. "When the opponent in a space you threaten casts a spell or uses a spell-like ability" Except when a spell states otherwise.

Based on these 3 triggers, the wording is that any reaction you make is a reaction to what an opponent is choosing to do, not what your character makes them do, I would rule that you cannot take a reaction to an action that you do to an enemy.

[Evilgm]

Angus_The_Bounty_Hunter wrote:

1. "When you threaten a space and the opponent moves out of that space in any other way than a guarded step.. or withdraw action."

Bull Rush appears to cause movement in a way that isn't guarded step or withdraw. Attacks of Opportunity makes no mention of choice being a factor, just the trigger.

[Angus_The_Bounty_Hunter]

Evilgm wrote:

Angus_The_Bounty_Hunter wrote:

1. "When you threaten a space and the opponent moves out of that space in any other way than a guarded step.. or withdraw action."

Bull Rush appears to cause movement in a way that isn't guarded step or withdraw. Attacks of Opportunity makes no mention of choice being a factor, just the trigger.

With this as being the case, I provide the following situation:

Your ranged PC is being surrounded by a gang of six space goblins who are threatening, and one goblin thinks he is a champion among goblins and decides to bullrush you. He succeeds and pushes you five feet back, barely. The result would be six goblins attacking you, including the one who pushed you.

If that is the case I'm going to enjoy killing some PCs. I would also like to point out that all of the illustrated examples on page 249 regarding movement are all as a result of an action of an enemy.

I need to change my original quote, I skipped paragraphs when typing.

Pg. 248 reactions "A reaction is (a special action) you can take even if it is not your turn, but only after a defined and concrete trigger."

[HidaOWin]

So, anyone think of a rules reason this doesn't work?

[Wrath]

Based on the quoted rules above, As written, bullrushing an opponent out of the threatened square of another player would enable the AoO

As for Angus' scenario, if you're surrounded by six opponents you're likely to die any way. This isn't changing that scenario

[Andrew Harasty]

1. "When you threaten a space and the opponent moves out of that space in any other way than a guarded step.. or withdraw action."

It is a subtle bit of grammar. The statement above has to do with the subject taking the action to move and not being moved by the result of some external action.

It would be nice to see a Starfinder FAQ on this, but Pathfinder has a blanket rule that forced movement does not provoke.

[Xenocrat]

Andrew Harasty wrote:

1. "When you threaten a space and the opponent moves out of that space in any other way than a guarded step.. or withdraw action."

It is a subtle bit of grammar. The statement above has to do with the subject taking the action to move and not being moved by the result of some external action.

It would be nice to see a Starfinder FAQ on this, but Pathfinder has a blanket rule that forced movement does not provoke.

Right, but this isn't Pathfinder. They got rid of the feat chain sir maneuvers, got rid of CMB and size penalties, got rid of attacks of opportunity for attempting maneuvers, and apparently also got rid of the limitation that involuntary movement doesn't provoke, too.

[baggageboy]

But is it intended that forced moment provokes, or was it an oversite? I think that is the real question.

[Hiruma Kai]

A point in favor of forced movement generally provoking, is page 103, Solarian Black Hole power. It explicitly states: "Creatures moved
by this ability do not provoke attacks of opportunity from this
movement."

If there was a blanket forced movement doesn't provoke AoOs, this clause would not be necessary. It also appears to be the only movement power in the CRB that has this clause. On a side note, this makes the power oddly handy for moving allies (who can presumably choose to fail their saving throw) out of threatened areas of enemies.

[Dust Raven]

I finally got my copy and have been reading through it and came across this. I'm a bit confused by it. It would seem movement from bull rush (and reposition) would provoke.

Comparing the rules between Starfinder and Pathfinder, both generally state the only way to avoid an AoO by moving is a 5ft step/guarded setp or withdraw. The main difference is in the rules for combat maneuvers and other forced movement. In pathfinder they specifically state the movement caused doesn't provoke and in Starfinder there is no stated exclusion. At least not in the descriptions of the combat maneuvers.

I'm almost ready to accept forced movement generally provokes like any other movement if only because of the increased difficulty of successfully performing combat maneuvers.