monk unarmed strike post lvl 20


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


So I'm in a campaign that will probably go past lvl 20 and I was wondering what the damage scaling would be on the unarmed strike. (side info am large in size and have the increased unarmed strike from brother of the seal, so my fists are treated as if they are huge...)thanks in advance

Silver Crusade

Strictly speaking it wouldn't, because it doesn't give a formula for damage dice, at least not the way rogues continue to gain sneak attack dice at every odd level


That doesn't mean it wouldn't continue; it simply means that you're in the realm of guideline-driven advancement rather than rule-driven.

A place to start would be the damage advancement chart FAQ (here). At 23, for Medium monks I'd use 4d6 per the last bullet, then go up one step every 4 levels thereafter. The chart's intended for size increases, but it's the best thing I have to go on.

For Large, I'd use two steps higher than Medium (6d6 at 23). Huge, four steps from Medium (8d6 at 23).

Silver Crusade

Actually, based on the only source we have for going past 20 (3.5 Edition) it means just that. As well, the Core Rulebook specifically notes that it's the features that increase at a set rate that increase.


Val'bryn2 wrote:
Actually, based on the only source we have for going past 20 (3.5 Edition) it means just that. As well, the Core Rulebook specifically notes that it's the features that increase at a set rate that increase.

monk damage does increase at a set rate it goes up every 4 levels

Lantern Lodge

It increases at a regular rate, but not a set one. The steps vary

d6 -> d8 ->d10 - fine but then at 12 it jumps to (damage increases by an average of 1 per "step"
2d6 ->2d8 -> 2d10 (damage increases by an average of 2 per step)

There is a pattern there yes, so you could follow it. But the 3.5 epic rules were pretty specific about what you would continue and what would remain static and maxed out at 20. Any deviation from a standard progression means that the "ability" or feature doesn't continue to increase.

If you continued the monk pattern, the damage would start to get pretty odd. Moving from 23rd to 24th would actually decrease our average damage by 1/2 hp (11 average from 2d10 to 10.5 from 3d6). This just gets worse when you move from 3d10 (average 16.5) down to 4d6 (average 14).

So you have to start messing with the progression pattern as well (possibly to something like what blahpers proposes). And here we are only talking about medium sized!

Honestly, the d20 games break down in mid teens. Having a sensible game at epic levels is astonishingly hard to do.


The suggestion from the core rule book for games going over 20th level is to multiclass, or use prestige classes instead of simply continuing in a single class. They do give some advice about how classes that go over 20 can be handled, but that is not the recommended solution.

My suggestion would be to go into a Empyreal bloodline sorcerer for spell.

In any case the rules are pretty specific the monks damage caps out at 20th level. Going up every 4 levels is not going up at a set rate; it is going up at a set interval. Since anything over 20 level is pretty much house rules the check with your GM is the only real answer to your question.


Val'bryn2 wrote:
Actually, based on the only source we have for going past 20 (3.5 Edition) it means just that. As well, the Core Rulebook specifically notes that it's the features that increase at a set rate that increase.

Incorrect. 3.5 has no relevance here. The core rules have guidelines for going past 20th level, but they are explicitly called out as guidelines. Post-20, it's all house rules. You can look to 3.5 if you like, but it has no more weight than a random pig's post on the Internet but the GM make it so.

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