Elemental overflow provides that "a kineticist’s body surges with energy from her chosen element whenever she accepts burn, causing her to glow with a nimbus of fire, weep water from her pores, or experience some other thematic effect.... The kineticist can suppress the visual effects of elemental overflow by concentrating for 1 full round, but doing so suppresses all of this ability’s other benefits, as well. The next time the kineticist uses any wild talent, the visual effects and benefits return instantly."
How does this interact with telekinetic invisibility? Say that a kineticist has suppressed the manifestations of elemental overflow and goes invisible. If the character uses telekinetic healing while invisible and accepts burn, does the resulting elemental overflow effectively cancel the invisibility, or does it just decrease the effectiveness of the invisibility by creating some visual manifestations? Also, since the benefits return "instantly," does that mean those benefits (bonuses to attack, damage, and points of healing) apply to the healing performed while invisible, or an attack made while invisible that involves the acceptance of burn? Or do the benefits only apply to subsequent actions?
Judging by the examples, your manifestation would be as revealing as holding a torch or pouring water from a cup while invisible--enough to pinpoint your location as long as it's in effect, but not enough to negate concealment. You are still invisible. Performing kinetic healing while suppressed would immediately trigger overflow, benefits and drawbacks alike.
However, thematic effect is pretty vague since we don't have any examples for the other elements. Your skin might turn rocky, eyes become swirling black, sprout leaves all over, ect.
Thanks. Yeah, I tend to agree that it would allow a foe to pinpoint the my location, but still suffer the other difficulties in targeting me. Even if they could not see what was happening on my body (because I'm invisible), I think they would see a disturbance in dust and pebbles or whatever around my character.
The one thing I've always been unclear on how it's supposed to work regarding the kineticist is - how visible is aether normally? If I use basic telekinesis to pick up a bowl from the other side of the room by entangling it with strands of aether, can people see the strands of aether? The way I imagine things like mage hand and telekinesis working is that people can see the thing moving, but they don't see whatever strings you've attached to it in order to move it (at least not without special senses.)
So if a telekineticist is overflowing, and aether is wiggling around everywhere, can people see that anyway?
The one thing I've always been unclear on how it's supposed to work regarding the kineticist is - how visible is aether normally?
Aether is normally invisible I think. For example, the aether elemental has constant invisibility.
I agree with the points people are making about the manifestations not being visible if not emitting light...
Im of the opinion that your class features shouldn't negate each other. I'd just say stuff like Jair and clothes move around, but also remain invisible. No mechanical effect otherwise.
Well here's the key factor about that ability, because we are discussing this in the Rules forum... the ability itself calls out that it's a "thematic" effect which indicates that there is no affect upon game mechanics. That's the most important part.
Very interesting observation. Is this a well-recognized thing, that "thematic" means no effect on mechanics? I can't find anything along those lines with a quick search.
It isn't a thing at all. It's an interpretation.
It isn't a thing at all. It's an interpretation.
Show me in the rules of that ability where is gives the mechanical penalties you described in your initial post. In the Rules forum, you need to back up your claim of giving off light equal to a torch, because nowhere in the ability does it say that happens.
I never said it would "give off light equal to a torch". I said it would be "as revealing" as a torch. Please avoid misrepresenting other posters--it's both rude and counterproductive.
The ability description provides two examples of overflow manifestations, both of which involve that element being emitted noticeably from the kineticist. In general, a description that gives examples followed by an "and so on"-style phrase expects the reader to be able to continue the semantic pattern. Thus, it stands to reason that other manifestations would give off (i.e., "overflow", fail to contain) an effect displaying that element. It isn't carte blanche for the player to decide that displaying a previously-unnoticed mole is an acceptable overflow effect.
For your part, if you please, explain where you got the notion that "thematic" somehow means "doesn't matter from a rules standpoint".