Retraining Question


Rules Questions


So, I misunderstood how the Headband of Vast Intelligence worked when I originally bought. For some reason, I thought it gave you skills points that one time and never again. For instance, my character got one at 4th level, so I figured 4 skills points and that was it. Come to find out, it grows with you. That's great and all, but that actually messes up things for me. I had planned on being able to add skill points on top of that to handle the case when the headband has to come off.

I put those skill points in a skill required for a prestige class, so when I take the headband off now (at level 7), I pretty much can't be my prestige class. "Don't take it off then!"... except if I'm playing a scenario where you have to (which came up a level or two back).

I was wondering do the retraining rules work in this instance? I want to apply the skill it's locked in to to another skill that I won't need/miss if I have to take the headband off again.

Or, should I just sell it and buy a new one? That will ultimately be my plan if I can't retrain (or I figure I want to keep my 5 prestige points).


The retraining rules only apply to you. They can't change the headband.

By RAW, you can't change the skill in the headband. However, as you sell it for half price and making a magic item is half price, you might be able to convince your GM to allow a caster to switch the skill. Essentially, using the old headband as the components to make the new one.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Noticed 'Prestige points' were used in original post.

If this is a PFS character, then there is already a campaign rule that you can take your clothes/gear off to wash/clean them, as long as you don't attune something else in that spot in the meantime. While doing so, one does not lose the mechanical benefits for said gear.

Can't find it atm, but I know it's out there, and there was a lot of rejoicing at the ability to have clean gear!


Jeraa wrote:

The retraining rules only apply to you. They can't change the headband.

By RAW, you can't change the skill in the headband. However, as you sell it for half price and making a magic item is half price, you might be able to convince your GM to allow a caster to switch the skill. Essentially, using the old headband as the components to make the new one.

Makes sense. Because I'm doing this in PFS, I'll just end up selling it and buying a new +4 headband.


Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

Noticed 'Prestige points' were used in original post.

If this is a PFS character, then there is already a campaign rule that you can take your clothes/gear off to wash/clean them, as long as you don't attune something else in that spot in the meantime. While doing so, one does not lose the mechanical benefits for said gear.

Can't find it atm, but I know it's out there, and there was a lot of rejoicing at the ability to have clean gear!

Whaaaaaat!? That's... interesting. I shall begin my search for this ruling.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
gatlingxyz wrote:
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

Noticed 'Prestige points' were used in original post.

If this is a PFS character, then there is already a campaign rule that you can take your clothes/gear off to wash/clean them, as long as you don't attune something else in that spot in the meantime. While doing so, one does not lose the mechanical benefits for said gear.

Can't find it atm, but I know it's out there, and there was a lot of rejoicing at the ability to have clean gear!

Whaaaaaat!? That's... interesting. I shall begin my search for this ruling.

Look for posts by John Compton.


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

Noticed 'Prestige points' were used in original post.

If this is a PFS character, then there is already a campaign rule that you can take your clothes/gear off to wash/clean them, as long as you don't attune something else in that spot in the meantime. While doing so, one does not lose the mechanical benefits for said gear.

Can't find it atm, but I know it's out there, and there was a lot of rejoicing at the ability to have clean gear!

That could be a useful item to find. In addition to the obvious hygiene issue, I was wondering what to do with a Mnemonic Vestment worn by a character whose deific obedience cannot be performed while fully clothed.


Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


Look for posts by John Compton.

Just what I needed. Here's the post

Though, that only partly solves my issue. Hopefully I never run into one of these scenarios again (with this particular character) but there's a scenario where you have to remove all your personal items.

Spoiler:
The one where you have to get the Golden Chalice in Sargava. I forget the name.

Do you think this ruling by John Compton also means "I can take off my headband, be without it for a few days, and still gain its benefits?" Or is it supposed to only be for "short reasonable" periods?


Prestige Classes don't have prerequisites, they have requirements that you must meet before taking the first level of that prestige class. Unless their is some PFS specific rule which I am not familiar with, this means you not only can still use any class abilities of you prestige class even if you currently don't meet the requirements to take the first level of it, but you can also freely take more levels of that prestige class even if you don't meet the requirements for the first level.


Dave Justus wrote:
Prestige Classes don't have prerequisites, they have requirements that you must meet before taking the first level of that prestige class. Unless their is some PFS specific rule which I am not familiar with, this means you not only can still use any class abilities of you prestige class even if you currently don't meet the requirements to take the first level of it, but you can also freely take more levels of that prestige class even if you don't meet the requirements for the first level.

That definitely wasn't an answer I was expecting. I found someone else stating something similar here for all others who come across this post.

That is... interesting. Very very interesting.


Good question. I don't know how this would work since you'd no longer qualify for the prestige class.

faq

Quote:
The retraining rules say, "If retraining a class level means you no longer qualify for a feat, prestige class, or other ability you have, you can't use that feat, prestige class, or ability until you meet the qualifications again." Therefore, if you retrain out of the base class and that causes you to no longer meet the requirements of the prestige class, you no longer have access to the class features from that prestige class, and therefore can't use that prestige class to meet the requirements of anything (including itself).

I'd assume that skills count the same as class levels.


Chess Pwn wrote:

Good question. I don't know how this would work since you'd no longer qualify for the prestige class.

faq

Quote:
The retraining rules say, "If retraining a class level means you no longer qualify for a feat, prestige class, or other ability you have, you can't use that feat, prestige class, or ability until you meet the qualifications again." Therefore, if you retrain out of the base class and that causes you to no longer meet the requirements of the prestige class, you no longer have access to the class features from that prestige class, and therefore can't use that prestige class to meet the requirements of anything (including itself).
I'd assume that skills count the same as class levels.

And I think with that, I'll just take the 2k loss from selling the headband back for a new one. There's a lot of possible interpretations and I'd rather not have my class features taken away because one GM interprets the rules differently and I wouldn't want to hold up a session with trying to prove one interpretation is right or wrong.


gatlingxyz wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:

Good question. I don't know how this would work since you'd no longer qualify for the prestige class.

faq

Quote:
The retraining rules say, "If retraining a class level means you no longer qualify for a feat, prestige class, or other ability you have, you can't use that feat, prestige class, or ability until you meet the qualifications again." Therefore, if you retrain out of the base class and that causes you to no longer meet the requirements of the prestige class, you no longer have access to the class features from that prestige class, and therefore can't use that prestige class to meet the requirements of anything (including itself).
I'd assume that skills count the same as class levels.
And I think with that, I'll just take the 2k loss from selling the headband back for a new one. There's a lot of possible interpretations and I'd rather not have my class features taken away because one GM interprets the rules differently and I wouldn't want to hold up a session with trying to prove one interpretation is right or wrong.

That is 100% true with retraining. Taking of a headband isn't retraining however, and those rules don't apply to that.

All that being said, you are correct that a GM might decide differently, and the middle of a scenario is no time to argue about it, so a 2k loss, and some regular retraining, isn't a bad plan. On the other hand, it probably is fairly rare that you will have to take your headband off during a scenario (as you have already pointed it, it can happen, but I doubt it is common) and therefore it is probably going to be fairly rare that the question would even come up, and when it does, the GM might still understand that Prestige Classes don't go away even if you no longer have the requirements (except if you lose the requirements due to retraining).

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