Lets say I'm a brawler and I have an elven branched spear (Brace & Reach) and combat reflexes.
An enemy moves through a square 10ft away from me, so he provokes an AoO from my spear. As he continues moving, he also passes through a square adjacent to me. Can I make an AoO unarmed as well?
Diagram:
- - 1 - -
- - - 2 -
- - x - 3
- - - - -
- - - - -
x = me
1 = start of enemy movement
3 = end of enemy movement
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You can only take a single AoO from an enemy movement, even if the movement passes through multiple threatened squares. However, you can make an AoO with any weapon which you threaten with. If you took an AoO with your spear at 10', and then the enemy took a non-move action that provoked at 5', you could take an AoO with your unarmed strike.
Well right of the bat we have this quote from the combat reflexes and multiple AoO section in the combat chapter of the CRB "Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one opportunity for that opponent."
So regardless of reach and multiple weapons, you are only getting one attack for your opponent's movement.
On the issue of later AoO being required to be made with the same weapon as the first, I have never seen and cannot find anything to support such a rule.
You can only take a single AoO from an enemy movement, even if the movement passes through multiple threatened squares. However, you can make an AoO with any weapon which you threaten with. If you took an AoO with your spear at 10', and then the enemy took a non-move action that provoked at 5', you could take an AoO with your unarmed strike.
Wow I'd completely overlooked that. It hasn't come up much but I know a couple of GMs that I should point that out to.
As follow-up questions, if I have the celestial obedience feat & worship Arqueros, gaining the following:
"In addition, you may attempt an attack of opportunity whenever a charging opponent enters a space you threaten"
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1) If that enemy were to charge to me, would I get a spear AoO when he got to within 10ft, then another spear attack when moved out of that square?
2) Would I get an additional unarmed AoO from the boon when he entered the square adjacent to me as well?
As follow-up questions, if I have the celestial obedience feat & worship Arqueros, gaining the following:
"In addition, you may attempt an attack of opportunity whenever a charging opponent enters a space you threaten"
-
1) If that enemy were to charge to me, would I get a spear AoO when he got to within 10ft, then another spear attack when moved out of that square?
2) Would I get an additional unarmed AoO from the boon when he entered the square adjacent to me as well?
Still just one.
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As follow-up questions, if I have the celestial obedience feat & worship Arqueros, gaining the following:
"In addition, you may attempt an attack of opportunity whenever a charging opponent enters a space you threaten"
-
1) If that enemy were to charge to me, would I get a spear AoO when he got to within 10ft, then another spear attack when moved out of that square?
2) Would I get an additional unarmed AoO from the boon when he entered the square adjacent to me as well?
Still just one.
Yes, just one. But if you used that AoO to trip the charger and were successful, you have ended their turn because they can't complete the charge action, and they will likely provoke again on their next turn if they stand up.
Still just one.
Errr... why?
Surely moving out of a threatened square is one opportunity, which would be limited to one by "Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent." and moving into a square (which doesnt normally provoke but now does thanks to the feat/boon) would be another opportunity? (making it at least 2?)It was my understanding that moving out of a threatened square was an opportunity, not the whole movement?
Hence the:
This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent.
having to call out moving out of squares to say that in that specific instance of multiple opportunities an AoO from moving out of squares can only done once for that movement. There's nothing I can find to say thats the case for other instances of multiple opportunities... such as the bonus AoO from the boon.
Enemy charges through a space within 10ft:
GM: The enemy has entered a square within 10ft, you can make an AoO due to your boon. (Opportunity to make an AoO 1)
Enemy's charge continues to within 5ft:
GM: He has left a square threatened by you, you may make a normal AoO. (Opportunity to make an AoO 2)
As far as I can see it doesnt say you get only one opportunity per movement, it only says:
A: You can only make one AoO per round unless you have combat reflexes, or similar. (Which this build does)
B: You can only take one AoO per opportunity
C: Moving out of threatened spaces would create opportunities (but...*)
D: *..."Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity." (A specific rule for moving out of threatened sqaures)
& E: (With the Boon) "In addition, you may attempt an attack of opportunity whenever a charging opponent enters a space you threaten." (No stipulation for once per round)
Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent.
Nope, You're right. The limit is per Movement, but rather moving out of a threatened square. You would get 2 AoOs.
Nope, You're right. The limit is per Movement, but rather moving out of a threatened square. You would get 2 AoOs.
Ah good, i'm not going completely mad then.
Moving on, question 3 was just whether or not you could AoO for both him moving out of the 10ft sq and moving into a 5ft sq one after the other (one with the spear, then one with unarmed) due to the boon. (Taking the total to 3) From RAW I could see it being a little grey due to potentially happening simultaneously(?).
I assume you fall on the side of the two opportunities becoming one opportunity due to them happening simultaneously, therefore only getting the one attack for that section of 5ft movement from the charge?
This FAQ may suggest it is only 1 AoO still.
The FAQ isn't directly applicable in this case, thus I say may, but it does seem to suggest that movement related AoO's are only generated once, regardless of whether that is entering or leaving a square.
Personally I think you get only 1 AoO from the your combo, but I could certainly understand others not agreeing with my viewpoint on this.
This FAQ may suggest it is only 1 AoO still.
The FAQ isn't directly applicable in this case, thus I say may, but it does seem to suggest that movement related AoO's are only generated once, regardless of whether that is entering or leaving a square.
Personally I think you get only 1 AoO from the your combo, but I could certainly understand others not agreeing with my viewpoint on this.
Yeah I'm not seeing that FAQ being too similar/comparable to the situation as in that their AoO from moving into another creatures square is essentially just the standard AoO for moving out of the adjacent space already (and essentially written prior to entering AoOs becoming possible, so they used entering/exiting somewhat synonymously), and not something that's called out as additional... But it sure points towards the answer to question 3 being no if only due to the FAQ's approach to simultaneous opportunities. Limiting it in total to 2 AoOs if they charge to an adjacent square.
Good point Bbangerter. Looks like another poorly worded FAQ to me. I have no idea now. Earlier I had thought that the CRB stated 1 per movement, but it clearly does not. It states one per leaving a threatened square. This is updated from the previous wording of "moving this way" or something to that effect. The boon clearly states entering the square.
I don't know what would happen with moving from the 10' to the 5' square because the character only crosses 1 line. As bbangerter pointed out, the FAQ suggests that would be 1 AoO.
But moving from 15' to 10' would provoke with the spear (moving into threatened square) and moving from 10' to 5' would also provoke (moving out of threatened square) with the spear. I would be willing to accept that this would work along with the FAQ since the character is crossing two different lines and not provoking twice for 1 square of movement.
Does that make sense?
...moving from 15' to 10' would provoke with the spear (moving into threatened square) and moving from 10' to 5' would also provoke (moving out of threatened square) with the spear. I would be willing to accept that this would work along with the FAQ since the character is crossing two different lines and not provoking twice for 1 square of movement.
Does that make sense?
I think that's the most logical conclusion, yes.
In that, although it isnt explicitly stated -and thanks to that its a little fuzzy on whether entering the last 5ft section would provoke twice-, you could reasonably say due to the FAQ that each 5ft of movement can create only one opportunity. That fits with both the FAQ and the RAW on the subject, as well as solving the simultaneous opportunity issue/question I had.Thanks everyone for the input, rules quotes and the FAQ links :)
You might consider adding the Fortuitous Special Ability to your spear. Really pile on those AoOs.