4 questions about Limb-Climber


Rules Questions


4 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo-rogue-a rchetypes/vexing-dodger/

Limb-Climber (Ex)
When adjacent to or in the space of a corporeal creature at least one size category larger than herself, a vexing dodger can climb that creature’s body with a successful Climb check against a DC equal to the target creature’s CMD. Although the vexing dodger is holding on to the creature, this action isn’t a grapple; it doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity from the creature, and neither the vexing dodger nor the creature she climbs gains the grappled condition. While the vexing dodger is on the climbed creature, the creature takes a penalty on attack rolls against the vexing dodger equal to the number of sneak attack dice the dodger possesses.

This ability replaces trapfinding.

What happens if the target moves?

Can the target remove the voxing dodger?

Do you lose your dex to AC when using Limb-Climber?

Action to climb. 1 act or 2? (in Revised Action Economy)


1. Nobody knows.

2. Nobody knows.

3. Unless you have an ability to keep Dex to AC while climbing, I would believe the character does.

4. I am not familiar with revised action economy, so cannot comment.

Limb Climber is a pretty cool ability in concept, but it is not very well spelled out on how it actually works. The first two things you asked are things that you will need to discuss with the GM (or decide for yourself if you are the GM) because there is nothing (to the best of my knowledge) official from Paizo answering those questions.


what other whey exist than rogues age to get back dex to ac when climbing?


1.) No Ruling on this, but I would assume that you treat the climbing creature as a wall, so you would travel with it.

2.) Again No ruling on this either, but the creature attacking the climber and hitting them would force the climber to make a climb check vs it's cmd again to stay on.

3.) Yes but there are ways to remove the penalty if you're an unchained Rogue pick up signature skill climb with the rogue's edge class ability to get dex to AC back.

4.) Climbing is part of a move action, i would assume it's would be 1 action like swimming, ou can move 10' and climb for the reminding 20'(5')


Monkey Style might help this archetype.


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Renieken wrote:
1.) 3.) Yes but there are ways to remove the penalty if you're an unchained Rogue pick up signature skill climb with the rogue's edge class ability to get dex to AC back.

Playing a race with a Climb speed will also allow you to keep your Dex to AC, as well as providing a +8 to your Climb check to beat the targets CMD.

Grippli, Monkey Goblins, and Vanara all have a climb speed as a base characteristic of the race.

Goblins and Catfolk can get a climb speed as an alternative race trait.

In a Giant Slayer campaign, I played a Goblin Vexing Dodger with a 1 lvl dip into Mouser Swashbuckler. The combination was based on the large number of house rules we had to make to fix all the holes in the archetype.

(For example, we ruled that climbing the target meant you were entering the target's space, and the successful climb check avoided the AOO for doing so. Since you're in the same square, you can't qualify for flanking since you're not on the opposite side from an ally, and you're not Tiny or smaller. Mouser got around that because, while you're in an enemy's space, you count as flanking as long as there are any allies adjacent to the enemy.)


Zautos' wrote:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo-rogue-a rchetypes/vexing-dodger/

Limb-Climber (Ex)
When adjacent to or in the space of a corporeal creature at least one size category larger than herself, a vexing dodger can climb that creature’s body with a successful Climb check against a DC equal to the target creature’s CMD. Although the vexing dodger is holding on to the creature, this action isn’t a grapple; it doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity from the creature, and neither the vexing dodger nor the creature she climbs gains the grappled condition. While the vexing dodger is on the climbed creature, the creature takes a penalty on attack rolls against the vexing dodger equal to the number of sneak attack dice the dodger possesses.

This ability replaces trapfinding.

What happens if the target moves?

Can the target remove the voxing dodger?

Do you lose your dex to AC when using Limb-Climber?

Action to climb. 1 act or 2? (in Revised Action Economy)

Unclear mostly:

1. You move (carried) with it since your are climbed to it. Note that if you weigh enough, you will raise their encumbrance.
2. No, but he can attack you, but I'd rate you as having total concealment, but he knows where you are (since you are on his back). So 50% chance to hit you.
3. Yes, always unless noted.
4. 1 Act.


Saldiven wrote:
Renieken wrote:
1.) 3.) Yes but there are ways to remove the penalty if you're an unchained Rogue pick up signature skill climb with the rogue's edge class ability to get dex to AC back.

Playing a race with a Climb speed will also allow you to keep your Dex to AC, as well as providing a +8 to your Climb check to beat the targets CMD.

Grippli, Monkey Goblins, and Vanara all have a climb speed as a base characteristic of the race.

Goblins and Catfolk can get a climb speed as an alternative race trait.

In a Giant Slayer campaign, I played a Goblin Vexing Dodger with a 1 lvl dip into Mouser Swashbuckler. The combination was based on the large number of house rules we had to make to fix all the holes in the archetype.

(For example, we ruled that climbing the target meant you were entering the target's space, and the successful climb check avoided the AOO for doing so. Since you're in the same square, you can't qualify for flanking since you're not on the opposite side from an ally, and you're not Tiny or smaller. Mouser got around that because, while you're in an enemy's space, you count as flanking as long as there are any allies adjacent to the enemy.)

i'

m planing to take one level mouser.


if you get climb speed in other ways do you get the dex back as well or only when you get it from your race?


Zautos' wrote:
if you get climb speed in other ways do you get the dex back as well or only when you get it from your race?

From the CRB Climb skill description under "Special:"

"A creature with a climb speed has a +8 racial bonus on all Climb checks. The creature must make a Climb check to climb any wall or slope with a DC higher than 0, but it can always choose to take 10, even if rushed or threatened while climbing. If a creature with a climb speed chooses an accelerated climb (see above), it moves at double its climb speed (or at its land speed, whichever is slower) and makes a single Climb check at a –5 penalty. Such a creature retains its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) while climbing, and opponents get no special bonus to their attacks against it. It cannot, however, use the run action while climbing."

There is nothing that indicates the Climb speed in question has to be permanent. I would think that getting a Climb speed from a spell would grant the above bonuses for as long as the spell was in effect, for example.


Zautos wrote:
What happens if the target moves?

You move with them. There's really no other way to adjudicate what happens when you're climbing on something and it moves.

Quote:
Can the target remove the voxing dodger?

There's no way listed, but hitting anyone climbing forces them to make another climb check against your CMD

Anytime you take damage while climbing, make a Climb check against the DC of the slope or wall. Failure means you fall from your current height and sustain the appropriate falling damage.

Reposition should also work.

Quote:
Do you lose your dex to AC when using Limb-Climber?

You probably shouldn't, but just to be safe i'd cast spiderclimb (+8 to the check anyway) or get the skill unlock for climb anyway.


BTW, if you can work your way through the rules issues with your GM sufficiently to make the Vexing Dodger work, he's actually pretty impressive with the damage dealing, especially if playing the UnRogue for easy Dex to damage. Rogues sometimes have a hard time getting their Sneak Attack damage to trigger. When combining with Mouser, triggering the Sneak Attack damage is a lot more consistent. Each die is about the same as 3.5 points of static damage (though it doesn't multiply on crits).

Also, the combination provides a pretty awesome debuff to the target. While climbing the target, it takes -4 to hit your character's allies. Combine that with the Debilitating Strike: Disoriented, and you add on another -2 to hit your allies (and a -4 to hit your character, which combines with the negative to hit the character the Vexing Dodger grants). Especially when fighting a boss type monster, effectively granting all your allies a +6 to AC will always be welcome.


Saldiven wrote:

BTW, if you can work your way through the rules issues with your GM sufficiently to make the Vexing Dodger work, he's actually pretty impressive with the damage dealing, especially if playing the UnRogue for easy Dex to damage. Rogues sometimes have a hard time getting their Sneak Attack damage to trigger. When combining with Mouser, triggering the Sneak Attack damage is a lot more consistent. Each die is about the same as 3.5 points of static damage (though it doesn't multiply on crits).

Also, the combination provides a pretty awesome debuff to the target. While climbing the target, it takes -4 to hit your character's allies. Combine that with the Debilitating Strike: Disoriented, and you add on another -2 to hit your allies (and a -4 to hit your character, which combines with the negative to hit the character the Vexing Dodger grants). Especially when fighting a boss type monster, effectively granting all your allies a +6 to AC will always be welcome.

I'm going for this typ of build because it looks awesome.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Level 3 unrogue level 3 swashbuckler (vexing dodger/mouser) kitsune with foxform is stupidly evil... (tiny means you add dex to climb and acrobatics) doing a bite attack is 1.5 times dex damage (right now at 1d3 +13 with a +16 to hit... the extra 2d6 when sneak attack is applied is just gravy... next level debilitating strikes as noted above...


If you are TWF, take Weapon Trick at level 9 for Piercing Climb, and really make your GM scratch their head as you use your daggers to climb... seriously, does it do damage to the creature you are climbing? What modifiers, if any, apply to the damage? Do you have to make an attack roll to see if you bypass their armor? What modifiers, if any, apply to the attack? How many attacks do you get per climb check? What if you have a climb speed and can climb without making checks?

Be a Grippli for the climb speed, and the Jumper and Glider racial features.

You leap upon your target, sinking your daggers into their flesh as you climb up their body... stab, stab, stab...

Even if they fly into the heavens, you continue to climb all over them, stabbing every vital organ in alphabetical order.

As they succumb to the wounds you have inflicted, you do a backflip off their now dead body, and gracefully glide to the ground.


When they move, you move with them... that HAS TO BE super obvious since you are LITERALLY climbing on them.

Since you are already taking the level of Mouser Swashbuckler, then I think that fills in the rest of the blanks.

Mouser has things that specifically make combat maneuvers more difficult... obviously you can Reposition the Vexing Mouser off of yourself... however, it is difficult, on purpose.

As for the Grippli, if you take Run as your level one feat, you always have a +4 to your Acrobatics checks to jump because of your Jumper racial feature. There are traits that can get you another +2 to Acrobatics/jump. You can even jump as part of a charge!

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