Here's the build.
Race: Dhampir (moroi-born for bonuses to cha and str)
Class: Antipaladin, Dread Vanguard Archetype
Gimmick: Demoralize
The rest is subject to change. Any advice/criticism welcomed.
What I will buy: bracers of the not-so-merciful knight, greatsword or nodachi, full plate (dex too low to take advantage of o-yoroi). the big six, some kind of haste provider, intimidate boosting items, permanent enlarge person, a conductive weapon to transfer antipaladin debuffs, will need a merciful weapon for one of my feats to work (i know thats not evil. shut up. ill flavor the nonlethal damage as sadism or something)
Traits:
1. Adopted (fiery glare)- take 10 on intimidate checks, even in combat
2. Ancestral Weapon: its weapon focus for my purposes.
Feats:
-Power Attack: pretty sure I need this one.
-Fey foundling: i can heal as a swift action, and this increases it by about 40% on average
-soulless gaze (and some other damnation feat to make it work): when I demoralize more than once, enemy becomes frightened, then panicked. This is why I don't plan to take the hurtful feat, as it would end the effect.
-enforcer and cornugon smash- with one hit, i can intimidate as a free action twice. This frightens the enemy in one hit when paired with soulless gaze. No save. Panicked in two hits.
-hero's display: swift action mass demoralize! With soulless gaze I can have whole parties frightened in two turns. I would retrain cornsmash, as it was only there to get a second demoralize attempt per hit (see soulless gaze). Heroic display provides the same effect, but also affects everyone around me. Unlike cornsmash, it doesnt require me to power attack, so thats an accuracy boost. Unfortunately, hero's display is super feat intensive. I would need weapon focus, dazzling display, and performing combatant, plus some way to get max ranks in perform.
-signature skill (intimidate): At the high levels, any enemy i intimidate must save or they are cowering. This means that heroic display can have a party cowering on turn one. They get a -4 to this save due to an antipaladin class feature. The guy im hitting has to make this save twice, due to enforcer
That's all I could come up with. Any ideas about how to make it better? Better equipment, better feats, better traits, etc.
so scenario at level 20 when i have all those feats. This was my thought process when building this.
I full attack and hit some guy in melee. First he has to save or be stunned/paralyzed (conductive weapon). Then i demoralize him. He is shaken, unless he fails a second save, then instead he is cowering for 1d4 rounds.
Then I swift action mass demoralize everyone within 30 ft. They have to save or cower for 1d4 rounds. This includes the dude I just hit, who must save a third time or cower for 1d4 rounds (2d4 total if he failed the last save). Even if that guy made all 3 saves, he is still frightened since I demoralized him twice, because of the fear stacking from soulless gaze.
Next turn, I can mass demoralize as a swift again. Even if everybody around me made their cower saves the last round, and even if they make the cower save again this round, they are frightened because of the soulless gaze fear stacking.
RESULT: at worst, everybody within 30 feet is frightened in 2 rounds, and one guy is panicked and near dead. At best, ON THE FIRST ROUND, everybody within 30 ft is cowering for 1d4 rounds, except one guy who is cowering for 2d4 rounds, and is also paralyzed or stunned.
I would definitely confirm with your GM that he's willing to let you play as a moroi-born Dhampir before you build for it.
As a GM I don't allow for any of the special types of Dhampir, Aasimar, or Tiefling.
And if you don't play as Dhampir, then fey foundling will do you no good as your Touch of Corruption wont heal you.
You might also want to verify that using Performance Combat rules is okay since that is what enables you to do Dazzling Display (essentially) as a swift action.
Also, while Cowering is nice panicked is especially inconvenient as the enemy starts running away. I would actually avoid this because it causes more problems by having them run away then it actually helps in my opinion. You only get the 1d4 rounds at 20 ranks anyways, so it only does what you want at level 20. Level 20 is the last level of the game, and AP and other written material almost never go to that level.
You should really aim for you build to come together around level 10-12.
I agree with Claxon, although I think panic can be useful depending on what you're aiming for, probably not on an anti Paladin though.
He's right about the build coming together pre 20 too unless you know you're starting at high levels and going Mythic, in which case, go for it :P.
EDIT: probably worth noting some builds really do struggle before high levels and you can't always do anything about it. (Spell perfection builds are the obvious example)
Make sure to take the Diseased Cruelty since you can use it on yourself and it couples with Plague Bringer while you heal yourself with negative energy.
I have a really old guide somewhere, back in the day I would advise you take the Channel Smite feat(s) as more often than not the extra dice from channel adds more damage potential than smite good, since most of the time you still don't fight good.
Always double check house rules before completing a build.
Personally I just prefer to use a Conductive Weapon to deliver Channel Energy damage. Also, you should place Cruel weapon enhancement on your weapon too since you plan on doing a lot of intimidating.
I ran everything by the GM and theyre okay with it. I don't plan on going to level 20, just gave that example to show off how silly it would be at max level. Youre right though. For a campaign ending at mid levels, hero's display would be too feat intensive to be worth it, thats really the best way to swift mass demoralize and its a shame I won't be able to do that. How does this build look?
1-fey foundling
3-power attack
5-enforcer
7-soulless gaze, retrain power attack to fiendskin. Now we can stack fear.
9-power attack again
11-cornugon smash. Now enemies are frightened in one hit.
I haven't playtested this, but in theory I think frightened and panicked would be fantastic, especially with the duration of enforcer. Sure theyre running away, but they will usually be spending a full round action running. It seems a lot better than letting them gang up on me and full attack. I could be wrong though. What kind of problems could running away cause?
It's THE marshmallow! I read through your whole guide! As for channel smite, I havent tested it and im sure it would be great for few engagements per day, but I think conductive should be enough. seems like a waste of resources especially since im healing and probably taking fey foundling. I saw your diseased cruelty suggestion, but looks like cruelties are only applied when damage is dealt, not when used for healing. RAW thats how it would work. A shame though as that would be cute. Cruel would be great, but Ive already got to fit merciful and conductive, but maybe at the end of the campaign.
Im glad to hear opinions from you both, marshmallow and claxon. I know from researching antipaladin builds that claxon has played antipaladins before, and marshmallow wrote the damn book on them.
Things running away from you isn't always a problem but in certain situations it can draw more enemies your way if you are in a dungeon for example.
Sometimes it's amazing though like you say since it means they can't influence the field themselves.
First the Damnation feat needs 3 other feats. and then Heroic Display requires lots of feat as well. I do not believe you will be able to get them all. Also I would pick between either C. Smash or Enforcer. My money goes to C. Smash since your first 2 feats are set and your an Anti paladin...Non-lethal damage is not in your vocabulary. Just keep killing.
1: Fey Foundling
3: Power Attack
5: Signature Skill (Since your not keen on hurtful but Hurtful is damn good.)
7: C Smash
9: Improved Critical (Please use a High Critical weapon. A scimitar is an amazing weapon. Wield it 2 handed and if your grabbed/grappled you can swing it 1 handed...Critting 1/3 attacks is what is up.)
11: Furious Focus
13: Dreadful Carnage (F*ck Yes)
Items:
MW Skill Kit- 50gp +2 circumstance bonus to demoralize attempts
Potion of Enlarge Person- If you’re bigger than something, you get a +4 bonus to Intimidate it.
Gravelly Tonic- 50gp This gives a +5 alchemical bonus to Intimidate checks for an hour.
Cruel Weapon Enchantment
Circlet of Persuasion
Luck Stone
Thats a solid build, louise. Thanks for the equipment advice. I only have a problem with hurtful because, in my mind, frightened is as good as dead, and I can do that in one shot at level 11 with the feat progression I posted above. Am i overestimating frightened and panicked? I guess at this point the determining factor is should i build for fright? or build for damage? I suppose an enemy could call for backup while frightened in many scenarios, but I don't think that alone is worth giving up a one shot kill. Also if I hit them twice theyre panicked (disarmed, and running in random directions, so no calling for backup).
Looks like if i go the damage route my build will be like louise's, with hurtful replacing signature skill. May retrain fey foundling once hurtful is online. If i build for fear, i guess the feats i posted above would be optimal. Thoughts?
Thats a solid build, louise. Thanks for the equipment advice. I only have a problem with hurtful because, in my mind, frightened is as good as dead, and I can do that in one shot at level 11 with the feat progression I posted above. I guess at this point the determining factor is should i build for fright? or build for damage? I suppose an enemy could call for backup while frightened in many scenarios, but I don't think that alone is worth giving up a one shot kill. Also if I hit them twice theyre panicked (disarmed, and running in random directions, so no calling for backup).
Thanks I try to make Solid performing builds that can be played out from 1 to whatever level you end at. Like I mentioned in the other Thread, I would focus on killing and getting in the intimidate on the thing your killing. Cause it is your job to END the fight, first and foremost. Your other team mates can help you will controlling enemies.
Frightened is not a status I play around with much myself. Shakened and Sickened always is enough for me on any intimidate builds I make. I do not want to be chasing them around and denying me those sweet full attacks.
That is an excellent point. While frightened and panicked with no save looks great on paper, if your party cant help you end the fight, it could lead to a lot of long, boring engagements where enemies get chased around. Even if it might be more "optimal," perhaps its best to stay away from frightened and just focus on killing.