Cold Subtype vs immunity to cold

[Heruem]

I realize this is similar to a few earlier threads, but I couldn't quite find what I was looking for. If a character has the cold subtype it makes him immune to cold and vulnerable to fire as opposed to a class ability/spell/etc. that just makes them immune to cold. Would this character take cold damage from a class ability/feat/etc. that bypasses immunity or would the cold subtype have to be removed first? If they would take damage, what would be the benefit of taking the cold subtype and take extra damage from fire if they could still take cold damage? I am not saying which side I am on, just trying to get opinions pro and con.

[Dark Midian]

Most elemental abilities that have the power to bypass energy immunity (Which there are very few) normally specifically state that "Creatures of this subtype are still immune to this damage." For example, using said effect against a fire elemental would do nothing, as fire elementals have the fire subtype, and are therefore immune to its effects. The same could not be said of a devil, who only has fire immunity but not the subtype.

Unless they are say demi-deity level and above, I know of no abilities that allow an energy effect to deal damage of that type to a creature with the same elemental subtype.

[GM Aerondor]

It may help if you specify which ability/spell lets you do damage to creatures with cold immunity.

Generally specific trumps general, so
In General creatures with the cold subtype are immune to cold
But Aerondors Icy Fingers are so cold they can even do cold damage to otherwise immune creatures, so that specifically over writes the immunity.

Some cold attacks may be super cold and reduce cold resistance effects, but I can't think of any off the top of my head that word against creatures totally immune to cold.

[Adjoint]

What do you mean 'taking the cold subtype'? By the context it seems like you're thinking of some situation where you have a choose to either take cold subtype or cold immunity, but I can't find any instance when you have such choice.

But answering your question: yes, unless otherwise stated, the cold immunity granted by cold subtype can still be bypassed by anything that bypass normal cold immunity. Thus cold immunity is just better than cold subtype, as it does not come with the drawback of vulnerability to fire. Usually though you don't have a choice of taking just the cold immunity when the description of the race or class ability says that you get the cold subtype (e.g. if you are 20th lvl boreal sorcerer).

[Heruem]

Aerondor, I am looking at abilities such as the Winter Oracle's 20th level revelation which can bypass cold immunity.

Adjoint, yes the Boreal Sorcerer's 20th level ability is what I was looking at.

[GM Aerondor]

Personally I don't think the game system should give the ability to bypass elemental immunity, but that is just my preference. It seems silly having an ability that lets someone burn a fire elemental - which is made of fire. Ignoring or reducing cold resistance, fine. Immunity just makes for too many odd cases. But that is more an issue of game design than rules interpretation.

That said, I'd suggest the 20th level winter oracle could hurt a 20th level Boreal sorcerer with cold effects.

[Heruem]

Thank you for the responses. I believe I have what I am looking for. I am still used to 3.5 where the only way to damage a creature with the same energy as its subtype was to cast a high level spell to temporarily remove the subtype. You guys have been helpful.