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Okay, if a creature has additional subtypes, like from class features, templates, or others not normally gained for their base race, how does this interact with Identifying the creature?
For example, a Halfling Sorcerer of the Orc Bloodline is Humanoid (Halfling, Orc). When PCs (or NPCs) encounter such a character, does the additional subtype have any bearing on the Knowledge check DC? And are they even able to detect the unusual subtypes of a creature?
This isn't isolated to the Orc Bloodline, many archetypes can grant additional subtypes to PCs, Orc Bloodline is just the example.
I feel a successful Identification gives them the creatures type, which would include special subtypes.
I don't believe knowledge skills will identify specifics like that.
Kn: Local for monster lore will tell you stuff about halfings. It won't tell you that this particular halfling is a sorcerer or what level it is or anything at all about this particular halfling. Now, if the particular halfing is famous, you might get information based on that (either a separate roll, or two aspects of the same roll depending on how you wanted to run it.) For example, you might recognize that this is Delroy Rushbucket, a well known sorcerer and the Rushbucket clan carries sorcerous blood due to their years of enslavement to the Bloody Fist orc tribe. I'd probably then require a Kn: Arcana to know that Orc Bloodline gives the order subtype.
I would want to allow a better than base success to be able to identify the Orc bloodline. Thematically, your halfling might have a greenish tint to skin, hints of tusks or whatever.
Since this is the rules forum, I don't think it has been ruled on.
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I would want to allow a better than base success to be able to identify the Orc bloodline. Thematically, your halfling might have a greenish tint to skin, hints of tusks or whatever.
Since this is the rules forum, I don't think it has been ruled on.
...Except somebody could easily go several years without it.
Gain levels from 1 to 14 in some other classes you like. For your 15th level, take 1 level in Sorcerer (and get the orc bloodline).
Now you have the orc subtype, when you did not for the entire previous decades of your life. Suddenly, all those orc-hating rangers that were hanging around are getting massive bonuses to find and attack you, when they barely even recognized you before.
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Saethori,
You went 14 levels... just means nothing happened to activate the bloodline.
Chicken/Egg whether you become a sorceror because your bloodline was somehow activated or becoming a sorceror activated the bloodline. Either way, the bloodline is now active, and should start to show. Some esoteric bloodlines might well be noticeable, but difficult to identify. Reasonably, Orc would be easier to identify because they are as common as dirt.
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Saethori,
You went 14 levels... just means nothing happened to activate the bloodline.
Chicken/Egg whether you become a sorceror because your bloodline was somehow activated or becoming a sorceror activated the bloodline. Either way, the bloodline is now active, and should start to show. Some esoteric bloodlines might well be noticeable, but difficult to identify. Reasonably, Orc would be easier to identify because they are as common as dirt.
Where are you getting the idea that sorcerer bloodlines change the appearance of the sorcerer? Maybe while using powers, but I do not think that the sorcerer bloodlines are supposed to be obvious.
And most bloodlines do not grant a creature subtype. Orc is rather unique in that respect. Okay, if the Orc Bloodline is confusing the topic, here's another:
The Shapeshifter archetype for the Ranger gains the Shapechanger subtype while using their "Shifter's Blessing (su)" ability. So, how would a knowledge check interact with this subtype? Only while using the power? Or would it work at all times? Or not at all?
If your table presumes that there is no visible/morphic passive effect of a bloodline, then there isn't. Your preference. If you presume there is or is not an effect on the sorcerers aura, then it can or cannot be identified that way, your preference again. There is no right here. I prefer the thematics of visible effects. If you don't, cool.
Your shifty ranger would have some feral aspects if you wanted that thematic.
If your argument is based on not wanting the disadvantage of people being able to identify some facet of your character, it's still you preference. If your table agrees, all the better.
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If your table presumes that there is no visible/morphic passive effect of a bloodline, then there isn't. Your preference. If you presume there is or is not an effect on the sorcerers aura, then it can or cannot be identified that way, your preference again. There is no right here. I prefer the thematics of visible effects. If you don't, cool.
Your shifty ranger would have some feral aspects if you wanted that thematic.
If your argument is based on not wanting the disadvantage of people being able to identify some facet of your character, it's still you preference. If your table agrees, all the better.
Well, looking more from a rules stance, rather than a table preference stance. Was thinking you knew of a rule I didn't regarding the visual aspects of a bloodline or subtype.
Regarding disadvantages, I'm under the impression that most abilities which target based on type or subtype, still function if you aren't aware they have that type (like ranger favored enemies). The GM may secretly be applying the bonus if creature is disguised, but it should still apply, as I understand it. So no advantages sought.
I do think that if your character description includes orc-like traits for a non-orc race, then I'd let them have the orc subtype with a knowledge check for that character. But for the question above, I'm directing it at actual rules, rather than "how I'd run it at my table" sort of answers. And if there is no real answer, that's fine too.
Sounds like the answer is that there is no answer, so ask your GM. That works for me, was just wondering.
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I haven't seen any updates or faqs on it, and since the identify rules were created before bloodlines existed at all it may always just be a table issue. I thought that was how I started, but this is one of those presidential attention span days for me, apologies if I failed to make that point first.