I been oogling at Occultist as an alternative for Alchemist, mostly because it reminded me of Constantine with the way implements and spells worked along with the magic circles.
What I was wondering is if the Tekko-Kagi would count as shield for the abjuration implement due to the wording of the weapon:
"Also known as an iron claw, this device consists of a fanlike structure of three or more 10-inch blades secured to a sturdy handle strapped to the forearm of the off hand. It can be used as an offensive weapon or defensively like a buckler, or used to disarm an opponent without provoking an attack of opportunity. It provides its owner with a +2 circumstance bonus on attempts to disarm or sunder swords or other slender-bladed weapons."
Kinda had the neat mental image of dual wielding these, for transmutation, one for abjuration.
My backup is buckler since it keeps my hand free, Klar's text says it's effectively a light shield with spike, so I'd just get the shield since I'm not a fan of a bladed skull theme.
Bit unsure how "defensively like a buckler" makes it be "not shieldy enough"
Wouldn't it be like a spiked shield saying "can be used as a weapon" and someone said "it's not weapony enough"?
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The occultist implement stuff is kind of funky. Personally, I look at this set of claws, go "that's not a shield", and consider the matter closed. Same for a character with the Dueling Cloak Deed feat or a ring of force shield.
Fortunately, however, my opinion is irrelevant for your purposes. ^_^
The trappings of the warrior aren't PFS-legal, so - by process of elimination - this is for a home game. If your GM wants to allow it, by all means, don't let me get in the way. And if they don't, well, hopefully I've helped prepare you for disappointment.
I wouldn't say irrelevant, and I get the Dueling Cloak Deed since it treats a non-shield as a shield, same way some feats might treat one weapon type as another or such.
Suppose I just hoped for some rule or citation, as you mentioned for example Klar, it's clearly not a shield, it's a skull with a spike on, more akin to a punching dagger, but text says it counts as a light shield same way text says tekko can function as a buckler.
Never touched PFS, only had glanced mentions of it on the forums.
Default plan is still buckler or pistol buckler, but if tekko can actually be treated as a buckler, it's just cooler visually.
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A tekko-kagi says "like a buckler" not "as a buckler." Basically, if it isn't listed in the Shields portion of the Armor table (which the klar is), it's not a shield.
Note, a bill ("When fighting defensively or with full defense, this weapon gives you a +1 shield bonus to AC.") and a meteor hammer ("...in fortress mode you cannot use it as a double weapon but gain reach and a +1 shield bonus to AC.") don't count as shields either.
The occultist implement stuff is kind of funky. Personally, I look at this set of claws, go "that's not a shield", and consider the matter closed. Same for a character with the Dueling Cloak Deed feat or a ring of force shield.
The ring of force shield is a bit of a special case, as the text explicitly states it "can be wielded by the wearer as if it were a heavy shield." The "shield" is just magical force, instead of metal or wood.
Buckler it is then.
Funnily enough, with that mindset, Buckler Gun doesn't actually count as shield as it's not in the Shields sections of Ultimate Equipment, only in weapon table. Since the whole thing is one, unlike shield spikes which are specifically attached.
I'd ask the GM anyway. Since the Tekko-Kagi is an exotic weapon that isn't very strong (it does d3 damage) and the Occultist isn't exactly chock full of feats with which to pull TWF shenanigans, it's not exactly unbalancing (you'd need to spend 2 standard actions and 2 points of focus to use Legacy Weapon on each claw, so you wouldn't usually.) Plus, it's fairly cool.
I'd be much more nervous about an occultist with a longbow and a buckler using the "Trappings of the Warrior" panoply than an Occultist with two iron claws.
Why are trappings of the warrior not PFS legal?
Why are trappings of the warrior not PFS legal?
I'm guessing "concern that it would be really strong". PFS does tend to be conservative about these sorts of things. The only panoplies banned in PFS are the two strongest ones.
You could make an argument that the Occultist with the Trappings of the Warrior is better than 80% of all martials at being a martial.
Why are trappings of the warrior not PFS legal?I'm guessing "concern that it would be really strong". PFS does tend to be conservative about these sorts of things. The only panoplies banned in PFS are the two strongest ones.
You could make an argument that the Occultist with the Trappings of the Warrior is better than 80% of all martials at being a martial.
I'm not up to date on the optimizing, what makes the occultist so much stronger. As in your other example, what makes an occultist archer better than say, a zen archer, fighter or magus?
With trappings of the warrior you effectively get a full BAB class that is also a 6th level spellcaster with lots of strong special abilities.
In a way it would be superior to the magus, inquisitor and warpriest by the virtue of having better BAB and it would be superior to the paladin, ranger and bloodranger by having superior spellcasting.
You're a full BAB 6 level caster with a built-in stat scaling stat fixing (so your attacking stat is 2 higher before you get a belt). Plus you get standard action bane to order, a free cloak of resistance, and move action martial versatility.
You might not outdamage some folks, but you also have access to a lot of the strong utility magic and you have a big pile of skills. Only thing you lack is heavy armor proficiency and bonus feats.
With trappings of the warrior you effectively get a full BAB class that is also a 6th level spellcaster with lots of strong special abilities.
In a way it would be superior to the magus, inquisitor and warpriest by the virtue of having better BAB and it would be superior to the paladin, ranger and bloodranger by having superior spellcasting.
If I understood how they gain spells, don't they get one spell per spell level (up to highest they can access at the time) each time they select an implement? An abjuration/transmutation occultist would have to keep selecting those two implements to get more spells from those schools, making it highly unlikely they get spells from other schools. Higher caster than Paladin, ranger or bloodrager, but so many fewer spells accessible at one time?
Or did I misread how they acquire spells?
You get one spell per level per school you have an implement for.
So a 10th level occultist who selects trappings of the warrior, and, say divination and conjuration as their other two implements would know 25 spells:
5 Abjuration spells (one for each level 0 to 4)
5 Transmutation spells (one for each level 0 to 4)
5 Divination spells (as above)
5 Conjuration spells (as above)
5 Spells that may be either Abjuration or Transmutation (one for each level 0 to 4)
You get one spell per level per school you have an implement for.
So a 10th level occultist who selects trappings of the warrior, and, say divination and conjuration as their other two implements would know 25 spells:
5 Abjuration spells (one for each level 0 to 4)
5 Transmutation spells (one for each level 0 to 4)
5 Divination spells (as above)
5 Conjuration spells (as above)
5 Spells that may be either Abjuration or Transmutation (one for each level 0 to 4)
Nice to know, I keep finding the occult classes a bit of a handful to read due to the increase in paragraphs per class feature unlike classes up til that book.
The panoply has to be picked as an implement, does it grant spells as if picking one of the implements that are part of it for spells, so using Warrior as sample, either adds spells from abjuration or transmutation?
The panoply has to be picked as an implement, does it grant spells as if picking one of the implements that are part of it for spells, so using Warrior as sample, either adds spells from abjuration or transmutation?
From Psychic Anthology:
when an occultist learns to use a panoply, he ...adds one spell of each spell level to his spell list, and these spells can be taken from any of the implement schools associated with the panoply.
So you take Abjuration and Transmutation as your implements at level 1, and you gain 4 spells: a level 0 transmutation spell, a level 0 abjuration spell, a level 1 transmutation spell, and a level 1 abjuration spell.
At 2nd level, you gain a new implement, which you choose to be the Trappings of the Warrior panoply. You now gain 2 more spells: one level 0 spell which can be an Abjuration spell or a Transmutation spell, and one level 1 spell that can be an Abjuration spell or a Transmutation spell.
In this specific case, since there's only one level 0 abjuration spell, and you learned it at level 1, your level 0 spell granted by your panoply must be a transmutation spell (but there are some good ones, so this is okay). So your spells known at level 2 might be something like: Resistance, Mage Hand, Mending, Lead Blades, Warding Weapon, and Feather Fall. At level 4 when you add 2nd level spells, you might gain Resist Energy, Node of Blasting, and Rope Trick. So for level 0 and 1 spells you'll have 2 transmutation and 1 abjuration spell, for level 2 spells you'll have 2 abjuration and 1 transmutation spell.
Handy to know, thanks for the heads up. Any wondrous items that fit the occultist really well, not thinking optimizing for max damage or anything such, just what might have good synergy.