If a Worm that Walks has Discorporated into a swarm, can it still cast spells that require any components (assuming it doesn't have still spell, silent spell, Eschew materials, etc)
As long as it doesnt have any somatic/verbal/material components i don't see why it couldn't cast spells.
I'm asking if the spell does have components, then will the worm be unable to cast it?
Basically I'm wondering whether a Worm that Walks can just stay in swarm form all the time And be immune to half the PCs (swarms are immune to weapon damage). That'd be a really boring fight for half the party.
I don't believe it can.
Generally speaking, spells assume that you have a sort of semi-humanoid body in order to cast the usual spells -- at the very least, you can make sounds, have appendages to wave around, and you need access to the material components. This can get a bit sticky for certain spellcasting monsters, but I expect most GMs would rightfully question how a bunch of worms is making noises or the requisite gestures.
Now, druids can pick up the Natural Spell feat to let them cast spells in non-humanoid forms. And a generous GM might let a Worm that Walks pick up a similar feat on the grounds that they'd have practiced worm-casting, if it was possible.
But RAW, I do not believe a Worm that Walks in swarm form can use spells with verbal/somatic/material components.
Still and Silent Spell would help, obviously.
also psychic spells should be fine.
I would say no to spells that require any materials since the worm form makes you drop everything
Second question: is a Worm that Walks immune to the "Snowball" spell? It's a conjuration spell, so you're basically creating a snowball and then throwing it at the worm. WtW are not immune to weapons (unless in swarm form) so the snowball should also work right?
Slightly fuzzy. The spell says in the first line that you're attacking a 'single target' as a 'ranged touch attack', so one might reasonably say that it works just like a ray, which Worm-that-Walks explicitly ignore (Disintegrate is specifically called out as a spell that doesn't affect them).
Quibble on the humanoid(ish) requirement for spellcasting.
Aboleth.
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Second question: is a Worm that Walks immune to the "Snowball" spell? It's a conjuration spell, so you're basically creating a snowball and then throwing it at the worm. WtW are not immune to weapons (unless in swarm form) so the snowball should also work right?
Worms that walk are immune to any physical spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures
Is it still a spell? Or does the spell just create a physical object for you to throw?
Is it still a spell? Or does the spell just create a physical object for you to throw?
The latter, since the duration is instantaneous. As far as your target is concerned you might as well have picked it up off the ground.
And under that interpretation, the worm would not be immune to the snowball then?
And under that interpretation, the worm would not be immune to the snowball then?
Not unless they're also immune to thrown daggers, which I don't think they usually are.
Second question: is a Worm that Walks immune to the "Snowball" spell? It's a conjuration spell, so you're basically creating a snowball and then throwing it at the worm. WtW are not immune to weapons (unless in swarm form) so the snowball should also work right?Worms that walk are immune to any physical spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures
I have a thread about this exact question.
What constitutes a 'physical' spell? I believe Snowball would be physical since you are are throwing a ball of packed ice and snow.
Oh I agree that a dispersed form worm-dude shouldn't be able to cast spells, since his individual bits no longer work together to actually manipulate things. Now for a price there should be ways around it, like a really abberant version of Natural Spell or whatever. I can see Psionic, or some of the PF Psychic classes.
I quibbled on using the Humanoid referent, because it is a dedicated word here, and you would be amazed and horrified, good folk, on how far people are willing to run with that dedication.
Now remember, Wormius, when you go outside, be careful around birds, fishes and shrews, ok, really careful around shrews, they will not stop feeding.
Second question: is a Worm that Walks immune to the "Snowball" spell? It's a conjuration spell, so you're basically creating a snowball and then throwing it at the worm. WtW are not immune to weapons (unless in swarm form) so the snowball should also work right?Worms that walk are immune to any physical spell or effect that targets a specific number of creaturesI have a thread about this exact question.
What constitutes a 'physical' spell? I believe Snowball would be physical since you are are throwing a ball of packed ice and snow.
The Immune to any Physical spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures, comes from the Swarm traits talking about damage.
Physical damage is B for bludgeoning, P for piercing, or S for slashing.
Energy damage is Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire, or Sonic.
Snowball does Cold damage to anything it touches (not a specific number), so it is not Immune.
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Is it still a spell? Or does the spell just create a physical object for you to throw?The latter, since the duration is instantaneous. As far as your target is concerned you might as well have picked it up off the ground.
The Snowball don't deal B/P/S damage, nor it add your strength bonus to damage, so it is in no way similar to a throw weapon.
The "instantaneous" argument is even less relevant.
Shocking grasp is instantaneous. It charge your skin with with an electrical charge?
Scorching ray is instantaneous, it give you a flamethrower?
Alchemist bombs don't deal B/P/S damage either. They don't add Str to damage. Yet you are certainly throwing it as a weapon. And it even would be very effective against a Worm that Walks.
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Alchemist bombs don't deal B/P/S damage either. They don't add Str to damage. Yet you are certainly throwing it as a weapon. And it even would be very effective against a Worm that Walks.
Irrelevant to Fuzzy-Wuzzy comment. Alchemist bomb or alchemist fire have a specific set of rules (they are a Throw Splash Weapons). They aren't spells from the start, they scatter, they can hit unintended targets.
Snowball do any of that?It has a range increment?
It is limited to 5 range increments?
The name notwithstanding Snowball continue to do 1d6 cold damage for caster level, it is not a ball of ice, it is a ball of cold . If it was a physical object that you throw, you would discharge it on yourself as soon as you did grasp it.
Is it still a spell? Or does the spell just create a physical object for you to throw?The latter, since the duration is instantaneous. As far as your target is concerned you might as well have picked it up off the ground.The Snowball don't deal B/P/S damage, nor it add your strength bonus to damage, so it is in no way similar to a throw weapon.
The "instantaneous" argument is even less relevant.
Shocking grasp is instantaneous. It charge your skin with with an electrical charge?
Scorching ray is instantaneous, it give you a flamethrower?
It's relevant to the question that was being asked ("Is it still a spell? Or does the spell just create a physical object for you to throw?"). An instantaneously conjured object, once conjured, is no longer magical. The spells you cite are irrelevant, not being conjurations.
Creation: A creation spell manipulates matter to create an object or creature in the place the spellcaster designates. If the spell has a duration other than instantaneous, magic holds the creation together, and when the spell ends, the conjured creature or object vanishes without a trace. If the spell has an instantaneous duration, the created object or creature is merely assembled through magic. It lasts indefinitely and does not depend on magic for its existence.
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Is it still a spell? Or does the spell just create a physical object for you to throw?The latter, since the duration is instantaneous. As far as your target is concerned you might as well have picked it up off the ground.The Snowball don't deal B/P/S damage, nor it add your strength bonus to damage, so it is in no way similar to a throw weapon.
The "instantaneous" argument is even less relevant.
Shocking grasp is instantaneous. It charge your skin with with an electrical charge?
Scorching ray is instantaneous, it give you a flamethrower?It's relevant to the question that was being asked ("Is it still a spell? Or does the spell just create a physical object for you to throw?"). An instantaneously conjured object, once conjured, is no longer magical. The spells you cite are irrelevant, not being conjurations.
Creation: A creation spell manipulates matter to create an object or creature in the place the spellcaster designates. If the spell has a duration other than instantaneous, magic holds the creation together, and when the spell ends, the conjured creature or object vanishes without a trace. If the spell has an instantaneous duration, the created object or creature is merely assembled through magic. It lasts indefinitely and does not depend on magic for its existence.
The name notwithstanding Snowball continue to do 1d6 cold damage for caster level, it is not a ball of ice, it is a ball of cold . If it was a physical object that you throw, you would discharge it on yourself as soon as you did grasp it.
To repeat expand the above questions:
You add your strength? No, not a physical object
It target normal AC or touch AC? Touch, not a ball of ice and snow, but a energy (cold) effect
You argue that is something that is throw. With what range increment?
It scatter?
The range of the snowball is the range of the spell, not the range of a throw weapon. So if it no longer a spell when cast, it don't go anywhere, it only appear in a location within that range. A bit useless, don't you think?
The nits you are picking do not affect the validity of my quote straight out of the CRB. Want me to quote Snowball too?
You conjure a ball of packed ice and snow that you can throw at a single target as a ranged touch attack.
Second question: is a Worm that Walks immune to the "Snowball" spell? It's a conjuration spell, so you're basically creating a snowball and then throwing it at the worm. WtW are not immune to weapons (unless in swarm form) so the snowball should also work right?Worms that walk are immune to any physical spell or effect that targets a specific number of creaturesI have a thread about this exact question.
What constitutes a 'physical' spell? I believe Snowball would be physical since you are are throwing a ball of packed ice and snow.
The Immune to any Physical spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures, comes from the Swarm traits talking about damage.
Physical damage is B for bludgeoning, P for piercing, or S for slashing.
Energy damage is Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire, or Sonic.Snowball does Cold damage to anything it touches (not a specific number), so it is not Immune.
Disintegrate also doesn't do Bludgeoning, Piercing, or Slashing damage, but it is specifically listed as qualifying as a physical spell in the description of the template.
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Snowball is so physical it doesn't even allow spell resistance.
I think physical is meant to be a very broad category: spells that have a physical component to what they do. Like throwing balls or rays of fire, making pebbles rain down and whatnot.
As opposed to for example Color Spray that bedazzzles people with illusory lights, or Hold Person that mentally constrains someone.
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The nits you are picking do not affect the validity of my quote straight out of the CRB. Want me to quote Snowball too?
You conjure a ball of packed ice and snow that you can throw at a single target as a ranged touch attack.
So now acid arrow is propelled by a spring in your hand and acid splash is a firearm?
"Acid Splash. School conjuration (creation) [acid] You fire a small orb of acid at the target."
"Acid Arrow. School conjuration (creation) [acid] An arrow of acid springs from your hand and speeds to its target"
"Snowball. School conjuration (creation) [cold, water]; You conjure a ball of packed ice and snow that you can throw at a single target as a ranged touch attack."
"You fire", "springs from your hand" and "you can throw" have no mechanical effect, the mechanical effect is:
"Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)", "Range long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)" and "Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)"
and "a ranged touch attack" for all of them.
Compare with:
Ranged Attacks: With a ranged weapon, you can shoot or throw at any target that is within the weapon's maximum range and in line of sight. The maximum range for a thrown weapon is five range increments. For projectile weapons, it is 10 range increments. Some ranged weapons have shorter maximum ranges, as specified in their descriptions.
Snowball don't have range increment, so it is not a throw weapon.
It is not nitpicking, it an attempt on your part to apply rules that are totally inappropriate for a spell.
Acid arrow has a non-instantaneous duration, hence is irrelevant. OTOH, snowball and acid splash are both instantaneous, therefore conjure something that ceases to be magical once conjured and which can, for instance, be thrown at a wizard standing in an AMF and hit and do full damage. Because the rules for creation(conjuration) say so. And BTW, the rules for creation(conjuration) are not inappropriate for spells, they are very specifically for spells.
You're essentially arguing that these spells should be evocation and not conjuration(creation). Maybe this is correct. I don't care. But don't pretend they're not conjuration(creation) because you don't like the clear implications.
Disintegrate also doesn't do Bludgeoning, Piercing, or Slashing damage, but it is specifically listed as qualifying as a physical spell in the description of the template.
Worms that walk are immune to any physical spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures
Disintegrate is an effect that targets only one creature. It is a Ray class of spell.
Disintegrate also doesn't do Bludgeoning, Piercing, or Slashing damage, but it is specifically listed as qualifying as a physical spell in the description of the template.Worms that walk are immune to any physical spell or effect that targets a specific number of creaturesDisintegrate is an effect that targets only one creature. It is a Ray class of spell.
So it must be a 'physical' spell in order for the Worm to be immune to it in conjunction with the targeted component. It makes sense that Rays are all physical but that still doesn't cover what a 'physical' spell means, and exactly what count and what doesn't. I feel like damage type isn't the decider - a Ray of Frost dealing Cold damage is still a ray and therefore physical.
So it must be a 'physical' spell in order for the Worm to be immune to it in conjunction with the targeted component. It makes sense that Rays are all physical but that still doesn't cover what a 'physical' spell means, and exactly what count and what doesn't. I feel like damage type isn't the decider - a Ray of Frost dealing Cold damage is still a ray and therefore physical.Disintegrate also doesn't do Bludgeoning, Piercing, or Slashing damage, but it is specifically listed as qualifying as a physical spell in the description of the template.Worms that walk are immune to any physical spell or effect that targets a specific number of creaturesDisintegrate is an effect that targets only one creature. It is a Ray class of spell.
I believe Dr Styx is reading it as "immune to (any physical spell) or (effect that targets a specific number of creatures)" == "immune to any physical spell and immune to effects that target a specific number of creatures," while Brissan is reading it as "immune to (any physical spell or effect) (that targets a specific number of creatures)" == "immune to any spell or effect that is physical and that targets a specific number of creatures."
(Me, I just read it as "poorly written.")
The line in question has an OR in it, not an in conjunction with.
The spell Ray of Frost deals Cold damage, witch is an Energy type. But is a Ray spell effecting only one creature. So Swarms are immune to it.
The spell Snowball also deals cold damage, witch is an Energy type. But it effects anything that it touches. If it hit a Swarm, it could hit one, two, six, twenty creatures in the Swarm at the same time. Taking full damage.
The spell Icicle Dagger deals Cold Energy damage and Physical P or S damage. A Swarm is immune to the Physical damage but not the Energy damage as any number of creatures in the Swarm could touch the dagger at the same time.
Yes, if you deliberately misread some parts of the rules, and ignore/deny the rest, you can become darn near untouchable. See if you can get regeneration. You can misread it to read that you cannot die. It is all very clever, but hardly fun.
You are better than that, aren't you?
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The line in question has an OR in it, not an in conjunction with.
The spell Ray of Frost deals Cold damage, witch is an Energy type. But is a Ray spell effecting only one creature. So Swarms are immune to it.
The spell Snowball also deals cold damage, witch is an Energy type. But it effects anything that it touches. If it hit a Swarm, it could hit one, two, six, twenty creatures in the Swarm at the same time. Taking full damage.
You conjure a ball of packed ice and snow that you can throw at a single target as a ranged touch attack.
The spell Icicle Dagger deals Cold Energy damage and Physical P or S damage. A Swarm is immune to the Physical damage but not the Energy damage as any number of creatures in the Swarm could touch the dagger at the same time.
You create a masterwork dagger out of ice. The dagger deals 1 point of cold damage in addition to normal dagger damage.
That spell conjure an actual dagger made of ice. The weapon damage is treated as weapon damage, and the effect of that varies with the size of the creature composing a swarm. Note that the worm that walks is not a swarm unless he is Discorporate.
The energy damage is treated as energy damage dealt by a weapon, there are several threads about that, as Pathfinder has removed a key part of the swarm trait. Most people think that it will affect the swarm.|
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Acid arrow has a non-instantaneous duration, hence is irrelevant. OTOH, snowball and acid splash are both instantaneous, therefore conjure something that ceases to be magical once conjured and which can, for instance, be thrown at a wizard standing in an AMF and hit and do full damage. Because the rules for creation(conjuration) say so. And BTW, the rules for creation(conjuration) are not inappropriate for spells, they are very specifically for spells.
You're essentially arguing that these spells should be evocation and not conjuration(creation). Maybe this is correct. I don't care. But don't pretend they're not conjuration(creation) because you don't like the clear implications.
And you pretend that the motive force of the spell isn't magical.
Instantaneous for ranged spells mean "it appear, fly instantaneously to the target by magic and deal damage" or "it is conjured by magic in the target location", not "it appear near you or in your hand and you throw it at the target".Maybe the first part of the creation rules will make it clearer to you:
Creation: A creation spell manipulates matter to create an object or creature in the place the spellcaster designates.
And you haven't jet addressed why, if we use your interpretation, the spellcaster is no taking cold damage when he pick up its snowball to throw it.
As, in your interpretation, it is a object that deal cold damage, the target can pick it up and throw it back?
It is possible to put it in a container to freeze what is in it?
It can be fired with a sling for extra range?
Why it don't deal B damage too, as it is a physical ball of ice?
It is a not well written spell by some of the guys that think that conjuration spells should be better than evocation spells at dealing damage (same damage as shocking grasp, ranged, with a rider effect!), but if we use your interpretation it become way more powerful.
A spell that create or enchant something that will be throw by hand has a text like
You transmute as many as three pebbles, which can be no larger than sling bullets, so that they strike with great force when thrown or slung. If hurled, they have a range increment of 20 feet. If slung, treat them as sling bullets (range increment 50 feet). The spell gives them a +1 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls. The user of the stones makes a normal ranged attack. Each stone that hits deals 1d6+1 points of damage (including the spell's enhancement bonus), or 2d6+2 points against undead.
with a clear definition of how you throw it, its range increment and so on.
You will again use your argument "it is not a conjuration", but your conjuration don't give us any information on how it is throw.
With your interpretation we can only go to the main rules, and lo and behold, there is no rule for throwing snow balls. So it is an improvised throw weapon, with a range increment of 10' and -4 to hit.
But the spell speak of a ranged touch attack and give a range of close. Something that clash with your "it is a physical object that is being throw".
That spell conjure an actual dagger made of ice. The weapon damage is treated as weapon damage, and the effect of that varies with the size of the creature composing a swarm. Note that the worm that walks is not a swarm unless he is Discorporate.
The energy damage is treated as energy damage dealt by a weapon, there are several threads about that, as Pathfinder has removed a key part of the swarm trait. Most people think that it will affect the swarm.
Weapon damage is always separate from Effect damage.
When you hit with a dagger, you can multiply Weapon (Physical) damage with critical hits.
If the dagger has an Effect like Frost, the Effect (Energy) damage is not multiplied with critical hits.
Effects that hit more than one creature are not stopped by Swarm immunity.
worm that walks has no discernible anatomy, and is not subject to critical hits or flanking. Reducing a worm that walks to 0 hit points causes it to discorporate (see below)—a worm that walks at 0 hit points is staggered, and one at negative hit points is dying. Worms that walk are immune to any physical spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures (including single-target spells such as disintegrate), with the exception of such spells and effects generated by the worm that walks itself, which treat the worm that walks as one single creature if it so chooses. Mind-affecting effects that target single creatures function normally against a worm that walks, since the creature's individual components share a hive mind. A worm that walks takes half again as much damage (+50%) from damaging area effects, such as fireball and splash weapons. Worms that walk are susceptible to high winds—treat a worm that walks as a Fine creature for the purposes of determining wind effects.
A Worm that Walks has the same immunity a Swarm has no matter what form it is in.
The line in question has an OR in it, not an in conjunction with.
The spell Ray of Frost deals Cold damage, witch is an Energy type. But is a Ray spell effecting only one creature. So Swarms are immune to it.
The spell Snowball also deals cold damage, witch is an Energy type. But it effects anything that it touches. If it hit a Swarm, it could hit one, two, six, twenty creatures in the Swarm at the same time. Taking full damage.
The spell Icicle Dagger deals Cold Energy damage and Physical P or S damage. A Swarm is immune to the Physical damage but not the Energy damage as any number of creatures in the Swarm could touch the dagger at the same time.
Not sure what you mean by 'it has an OR and not a conjunction.'
Worms that Walk are hit by targeted mind-affecting spells and abilities as normal. They are not immune to everything that targets. It must be both physical and targeted for their immunity to apply.
Not technically true. A WtW in regular form can take weapon damage normally (albeit it has huge DR). In swarm form a barbarian with a greataxe can't hurt it without special equipment of feats.
What I'm saying is that if a normal snowball I pick up off the round can affect a WtW (assuming I can bypass DR somehow), then, logically, why can't a snowball i conjure up affect the WtW? Regardless of whether I propel or using my arm or via a magical push, the snowball should hit and splatter against the WtW in the same fashion?
Not sure what you mean by 'it has an OR and not a conjunction.
What I mean is you posted.
So it must be a 'physical' spell in order for the Worm to be immune to it in conjunction with the targeted component.
Your above post is incorrect. It is...
Worms that walk are immune to any physical spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures
Not sure what you mean by 'it has an OR and not a conjunction.What I mean is you posted.
So it must be a 'physical' spell in order for the Worm to be immune to it in conjunction with the targeted component.Your above post is incorrect. It is...
Worms that walk are immune to any physical spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures
This reads as,
"Worms that walk are immune to any physical spell that targets a specific number of creatures"
as well as
"Worms that walk are immune to any physical effect that targets a specific number of creatures."
I don't think it's saying they are 1) immune to physical spells, and then 2)immune from effects that target. Otherwise they would list the different immunities, just like they list the other immunities.
Immunities: Worms that walk are immune to disease, paralysis, poison, and sleep effects.
It would be like, "Worms that walk are immune to physical spells, and effects that target a specific number of creatures." The "or" is specifying that it applies to spells and effects.
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That spell conjure an actual dagger made of ice. The weapon damage is treated as weapon damage, and the effect of that varies with the size of the creature composing a swarm. Note that the worm that walks is not a swarm unless he is Discorporate.
The energy damage is treated as energy damage dealt by a weapon, there are several threads about that, as Pathfinder has removed a key part of the swarm trait. Most people think that it will affect the swarm.
Weapon damage is always separate from Effect damage.
When you hit with a dagger, you can multiply Weapon (Physical) damage with critical hits.
If the dagger has an Effect like Frost, the Effect (Energy) damage is not multiplied with critical hits.Effects that hit more than one creature are not stopped by Swarm immunity.
worm that walks has no discernible anatomy, and is not subject to critical hits or flanking. Reducing a worm that walks to 0 hit points causes it to discorporate (see below)—a worm that walks at 0 hit points is staggered, and one at negative hit points is dying. Worms that walk are immune to any physical spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures (including single-target spells such as disintegrate), with the exception of such spells and effects generated by the worm that walks itself, which treat the worm that walks as one single creature if it so chooses. Mind-affecting effects that target single creatures function normally against a worm that walks, since the creature's individual components share a hive mind. A worm that walks takes half again as much damage (+50%) from damaging area effects, such as fireball and splash weapons. Worms that walk are susceptible to high winds—treat a worm that walks as a Fine creature for the purposes of determining wind effects.A Worm that Walks has the same immunity a Swarm has no matter what form it is in.
Worm that Walks Traits: A worm that walks has no discernible anatomy, and is not subject to critical hits or flanking. Reducing a worm that walks to 0 hit points causes it to discorporate (see below)—a worm that walks at 0 hit points is staggered, and one at negative hit points is dying. Worms that walk are immune to any physical spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures (including single-target spells such as disintegrate), with the exception of such spells and effects generated by the worm that walks itself, which treat the worm that walks as one single creature if it so chooses. Mind-affecting effects that target single creatures function normally against a worm that walks, since the creature's individual components share a hive mind. A worm that walks takes half again as much damage (+50%) from damaging area effects, such as fireball and splash weapons. Worms that walk are susceptible to high winds—treat a worm that walks as a Fine creature for the purposes of determining wind effects.
Those aren't the normal swarm immunities
Discorporate (Su) A worm that walks can collapse into a shapeless swarm of worms as a free action. All held, worn, and carried items fall and its Strength score drops to 1. The worm that walks functions as a true swarm while discorporated, with a reach of 0 feet (its space remains unchanged). While discorporated, the worm that walks loses all of its defensive abilities and gains all of the standard swarm traits. It loses its slam attacks and all special abilities and special attacks, but can make a swarm attack that deals damage equal to its engulf attack. A worm that walks can reform into its true form (including equipping all gear in reach) as a full-round action as long as it has at least 1 hit point.
When discorporated it has a swarm immunities as it is a swarm.
Worm that Walks CR 14
XP 38,400
Human worm that walks conjurer 13
NE Medium vermin (augmented human)
Not a swarm.
Diego is correct, the Snowball spell is not a physical spell since it deals no physical damage.
If you need a crash course on what pathfinder considers physical/non-physical go look at the list of Kineticist blasts.
PS: Snowball is a terribly written spell
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From Snowball:
You conjure a ball of packed ice and snow that you can throw at a single target.
A Snowball would not affect more than one Fine sized creature out of a crowd of Fine sized creatures sharing a space. Similarly, it will not affect more than a single worm in the mass of a Worm that Walks. So you'll ruin one worm's day, but the other ten thousand or so that make up the WtW won't be bothered.
There's some confusion in this thread that rises from a misinterpretation of the Worm that Walks' entry, which draws a distinction between single-target mind affecting spells and effects (which can affect it) and single target physical spells and effects, (which cannot). Since its entry calls out Disintegrate, a Force effect, as a physical single target spell, we can conclude that other energy attacks--fire, cold, whatever--are likewise considered physical attacks when applied to a WtW.
From Snowball:
You conjure a ball of packed ice and snow that you can throw at a single target.
That fluff text has absolutely no bearing on how the spell works. If it did the spell would require a ranged attack roll (as Diego already mentioned) and would deal bludgeoning(probably) + cold damage. When you use physical ice to attack it does a physical damage type (as you can see here, here, or here). If there is no mention of a physical damage type then the attack does not do physical damage, it does energy damage.
Disintegrate was a bad example to use since it does not have an associated damage type (but rays do not ever have a physical damage type).
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Note that the Worm That Walks Traits where slightly different in Kingmaker
Worm That Walks Traits The Wriggling Man has no discernable anatomy, and is not subject to critical hits or flanking. He can be damaged normally by weapons (such blows scattering worms or temporarily disrupting a portion of its body), but damage is mitigated normally by fast healing and damage reduction. Reducing him to 0 hit points forces him to discorporate—at 0 hit points he is staggered, and at negative hit points he is dying. He is immune to any spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures (including single-target spells such as disintegrate), with the exception of such spells and effects generated by himself, which treat him as a single creature if he so chooses. Mind-affecting effects that target single creatures also function normally against him since his individual components share one hivemind in common. He takes half again as much damage (+50%) from spells or effects that affect an area, such as splash weapons and many evocation spells. The Wriggling Man is susceptible to high winds—treat him as a Fine creature for the purposes of determining the effects of wind.[quote =Bestiary 2 - 2010]Worms that walk are immune to any physical spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures (including single-target spells such as disintegrate), with the exception of such spells and effects generated by the worm that walks itself, which treat the worm that walks as one single creature if it so chooses.
That "physical" was added in the bestiary. A "clarification" that do more harm than benefit, as there is no definition of what is a physical spell in this game.
I don't believe it can.
Generally speaking, spells assume that you have a sort of semi-humanoid body in order to cast the usual spells -- at the very least, you can make sounds, have appendages to wave around, and you need access to the material components.
And yet, blink dog sages exist.
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And yet, blink dog sages exist.I don't believe it can.
Generally speaking, spells assume that you have a sort of semi-humanoid body in order to cast the usual spells -- at the very least, you can make sounds, have appendages to wave around, and you need access to the material components.
Sorcerers with a Cha of 11. That is a simple description, without mechanics.
As the description is extremely short, we don't know it:- they only learn V spells;
- they have still spell as a feat (as sorcerers they have eschew materials by default).
Personally, when confronted by that kind of spellcasting creature, i assume they have learned a version fo the spell that reflect their body appendages and their ability to vocalize.
That fluff text has absolutely no bearing on how the spell works. If it did the spell would require a ranged attack roll... .
Er, it does. From Snowball:
You conjure a ball of packed ice and snow that you can throw at a single target as a ranged touch attack.
and would deal bludgeoning(probably) + cold damage.
That does not logically follow. It is easy to imagine an object might not be hard enough or thrown fast enough to deal bludgeoning damage--a real world snowball is an excellent example, is it not?--but could still be magically cold enough to do cold damage.
There's no reason to think all cold projectiles work the same. Not all fire projectiles do. Produce Flame, for example, does no bludgeoning damage, but still does fire damage, which is in contrast to Meteor Swarm, which does both bludgeoning and fire. So the fact that Ice Dagger etc. do multiple damage types has no bearing on the matter at hand.
Anyhow, why are you so certain the passage I cited is fluff? It looks pretty mechanical to me.
If [a Snowball] was a physical object that you throw, you would discharge it on yourself as soon as you did grasp it.
Why? It is easy to imagine a magical snowball that absorbs heat only when it is thrown and strikes something.
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Why? It is easy to imagine a magical snowball that absorbs heat only when it is thrown and strikes something.If [a Snowball] was a physical object that you throw, you would discharge it on yourself as soon as you did grasp it.
Fuzzy-Wuzzy argument is that after the snowball has been conjured, it is a totally non magical item that you throw. A non magical item that deal cold damage at a mere touch is in the range of the 150 °K (touching dry ice don't provoke instantaneous burns, and its temperature is less than 200 °K (-109.3 °F).
If we accept that argument, it is so cold that it deal cold damage to anyone touching it, included the one throwing it.And you still aren't addressing the range of the spell, what range increments are used with the throw item, and so on.
I repeat what I said above: if the result of a spell is throw as a physical object, it list all those information, see magic stone for an example.
Without those information it is a improvised weapon with -4 to hit, 10' range increments and it attack standard AC.
But the spell give us those information: it is a ranged touch attack with a range of close. Nothing about the strength of your throwing arm.