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My players are currently in the Catacombs of Wrath. Before reaching Erylium, they dispatched the other inhabitants with little issue, though after destroying one zombie they opted to leave the others alone in their pits.
Erylium put up a hell of a fight for them, dropping the fighter into negatives and forcing the sorcerer to flee via Cause Fear. However, I took some pity on them and had her flee when the party ranger tried grappling her after realizing his arrows weren't doing much to her. I think this is totally fine, as her description has her as being a coward and preferring to fight from range. We ended the session shortly after the fight, the party having healed the fighter and experimenting a bit with summoning a single sinspawn from the runewell.
I suspect the players may attempt to camp out in the cathedral as they are all out of magic and hurting pretty bad. Not wanting to go too easy on them I decided that if they camp out, Erylium would remove the zombies form the pits and station them outside the cathedral for a nasty surprise in the morning. My question is this: is this a feasible thing for her to do? I'm not exactly sure how she would accomplish this with no remaining allies, but I do want the players to have a consequence for hanging out overnight in the cathedral of an evil goddess. I could just hand wave it of course, but if the players ask I'd like to have a reasonable explanation.
Your thoughts?
Here's a picture I took of the fight in the cathdral. The wolf was summoned by Erylium and did a good job of distracting the fighter as well as flanking him for the sinspawn to tear into.
https://s8.postimg.org/bse1nhfkl/20170414_222145.jpg
Ternate thought: Vision of Lamashtu plus Waters of Maddening. Bonus points: you can use this to reveal backstory and "hidden" elements to the players - visions of Nualia's trysts and corruption of first her child and then her, dreams experiencing time from Erylium's view and the slow insanity that goes with it, early hints of the Scribbler, and the idea of being marked for vengeance or glory (or both) by Lamashtu, and so on.
The water is whatever water they have in their canteens/waterskin/etc. (not any magic potions or alchemical stuff or similar - just non-blessed water). Probably give hints to this effect within their nightmares.
Or a simple extended rage spell with the visions' or something similar.
In any event, these would be thematically appropriate, explain things to the PCs they might otherwise miss, and also "punish" them for sleeping in a temple to Lamashtu.
Erylium's not really strong enough to free the zombies, and I don't know how she'd help them get out. That said, I've forgotten how deep the pits are. It's possible that Erylium could get the zombies to climb out or stack themselves like a cheerleader pyramid but undead and awful.
Hope that helps!
Hadn't seen that thread, yet! That's awesome!
Your suggestion, there, is extremely similar to what I did, above.
Sweet!
Oh, and if you do end up with a TPK via slumber-hex Erylium (or zombies, or whatever), you could always have them reincarnate (as the spell; well, sort of - you'll see in a bit) with... some special benefits attached.
Especially something like the abomination, half-fiend (or, if that's too much, fiendish, or the mutant or mutant creature templates, or even ogrekin or (especially if they reincarnate as a goblin) the mutant goblin or haunted one templates.
As a final option, perhaps something like the juju zombie template - this is an especially solid option if Erylium used something like an unguent of timelessness before, say, trying to put their corpses into the Well in a misguided attempt to make "free" wrathspawn or something. Heck, you could bring them back as (perfectly preserved, so normal-looking) zombies with some of the wrathspawn abilities (like sin-scent and sinful bite), but maybe with a drawback like the rage spell randomly hitting them once per day, or like the brute form or (for a less severe instance) the alternate persona from the master chymist.
While these seem like power-upgrades (and they are), the problems with these should also be emphasized - the weirdness of a new body with reincarnate, the attempt by Lamashtu (and/or Erylium, even though the quasit is clearly unable to accomplish such) to hold over the heads of the heroes how much they owe her their lives, the inner battle with rage, or deadness inside, or how monstrous they are to the populous.
But those are just a few quick ideas for a "just in case" scenario, not really a strong or primary recommendation.
Yet another thread completely free of spoiler tags. :(
If she couldn't free the zombies in 10,000 years (!!!) with minions, hard to justify her freeing them without minions in a few hours.
My suggestion: You ask them directly - "Okay, let me make sure I understand correctly, you are trying to rest overnight in an ancient ruin associated with the Goddess of Perversion (Lamashtu) that holds an artifact that produces monsters of Wrath? Right? Instead of, you know, walking the few hundred feet back to the surface through a path you've already cleared of enemies? Have I got that right?"
If they say, yes, Elyrium sneaks in invisibly in the middle of the night and summons a couple more sinspawn. (I would ignore the limits on wrath points etc. in this case.) This happens before they can recover any spells or heal for resting overnight. If you're too stupid to live, you're too stupid to live.
I don't think spoiler should be in the posts.
The title alone is only as spoiler as anything found within.
That said, I suppose it could use "spoiler" within the title, but the posts themselves certainly do not.
I don't think spoiler should be in the posts.
The title alone is only as spoiler as anything found within.
That said, I suppose it could use "spoiler" within the title, but the posts themselves certainly do not.
Really?
The OP's post specifically mentions The Cathedral of Wrath, Elyrium, zombies, sinspawn and runewell.
Your first post mentions Nualia, her trysts, her first child and, just so we can spoil future Books in the AP, the Scribbler.
Not sure what your definition of spoiler is but mine is: information a player couldn't possibly know unless he/she had already played through that section of the AP.
Really?
Absolutely!
Hence:
That said, I suppose it could use "spoiler" within the title, but the posts themselves certainly do not.
So, instead of "ERYLIUM & ZOMBIES" the title might be "[Spoiler] ERYLIUM & ZOMBIES" which more or less handles your objections, while leaving the title useful for anyone who's trying to understand what's going on.
Hence, my comment:
The title alone is only as spoiler as anything found within.
:)
EDIT: I mean, generally speaking, if I, as a player, saw, "<name I don't recognize> & <monster>" I'm going to presume, "Oh, hey, that thread is probably full of spoilers." because, usually speaking, specific character names and specific monsters relate directly to a knowable specific instances shared by others as-found within a published AP. If I'm looking to avoid spoilers and it appears on the right, I avoid that thread - I won't even know which AP it comes from. If I'm looking to avoid spoilers and I happen to be in this particular sub-forum, I... avoid that thread (because it almost certainly relates to something spoilery that I shouldn't know about). Hence, most anyone should know to avoid a thread with spoilers. And if they are looking for spoilers (though it could still be beneficial for some to add a single "[SPOILER]" to the title, just to be sure); on the other hand, if someone is either looking for spoilers, or doesn't care about them, adding spoiler tags to individual posts won't change that or deter them. I'd argue that potentially spoiler-y thread titles are necessary, though, because otherwise people will just gloss over it, as it doesn't explain the real problem the OP is seeking help with.
All that said, spoiler-tags are super-awesome, and really useful. They are most appropriate when in general-purpose threads (such as those in a General or not an already-spoiler-y thread). This thread, though, does not match that criteria! Hence, no need. :D
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It certainly wasn't my intention to spoil anyone's experience of the Adventure Path, but in my opinion players really shouldn't be reading subforums about the AP they're playing anyway. Surely if they have questions or concerns about the AP those should be directed at their GMs, while general questions or discussions can go elsewhere.
I'd edit the title, but there doesn't seem to be a way to do so, unless I've missed something? In case you didn't notice I'm new here, as well as to Pathfinder, though my RPG roots go back to the '80s.
Thanks for the reminder about nightmares folks, I've written some rather juicy ones to hand out in case the party does camp there overnight. I kind of hope they do so now, just so I can see their reactions, and use it as an opportunity to set some stuff up for later.
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I'd edit the title, but there doesn't seem to be a way to do so, unless I've missed something? In case you didn't notice I'm new here, as well as to Pathfinder, though my RPG roots go back to the '80s.
Hello! We're glad you're here! Welcome!
You actually can't edit a post (or title to a thread) after one hour in these forums (the option disappears from the list of things you can do to one of your own posts; it's found among the other options that are available to all posts to the upper right side, in blue).
I flagged the OP (that's a shorthand*) with "Needs Spoiler Tag" so if Chris (or other mods!) agree, than it'll be changed, probably much like I described above. I don't really think you did anything wrong*, but rather I did so mostly just to cover any possible objections.
*
Just so you're aware, there are players that prowl through the AP-specific boards, usually for advice (often related to character builds - no one wants to build a deep sea specialist, only to find out the campaign they signed up for happens to be all jungle all the time); but they're pretty much walking into mild spoiler-country at best, as a result, and that's pretty much something they have to accept, else we'd end up with a ton of useless thread titles, like, "I need help on this one thing." that does no one any good.
As I'm prone to mentioning around here:
... although we're a cantankerous and argumentative bunch around here, with strong personalities and stronger opinions, but it's because we're passionate nerds who love our hobby. :D
Hope your game is awesome, and it sounds like it will be!
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Back to the original idea...
On the other hand, actually controlling them is another matter. I don't think Erylium has any way to magically control them. She might be able to call to them normally, as in "Over here! Living flesh this way!" but unless you want to give her some extra power the zombies are not actually going to be controlled by her.
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Just thought I'd update this thread with the following in case it may help fellow GMs later. My players did camp out in the Catacombs overnight, so I had them roll dice to see which of the following handouts they received. They rolled a d8 (re-rolling if they rolled the same as another player). There were two copies of #2 (which one player got, so it was nice that when they woke the zombies were almost upon them) and three copies of #6 (which had extra text on it so prying eyes would not immediately notice a difference).
1. You have a fitful night of sleep. Images of your mother come to mind, she lays in bed drenched in sweat. She is in terrible distress, her face a contorted mask of pain and suffering. You realize she is heavily pregnant and about to give birth. As your mother screams in pain, a head starts to emerge from her womb. Only this is no ordinary head – it is the head of a goblin. As the head emerges, the eyes open and look deep into your soul. Its teeth gnash and it starts to struggle, trying to free itself to feast upon your flesh with sharp teeth. You feel yourself being drawn inexorably towards your doom, unable to turn away. Just as you are about to be consumed by this monstrosity you awake with a start, drenched in your own sweat. Shaken to your core, you look about to see that your companions are all sound asleep. You lay your head back down and sleep until morning, no longer troubled by such nightmares.
2. You dream as you sleep. A crowd of people are chasing you, yet they do not run. They walk slowly, yet gain on you. You feel as though you are moving through molasses; it drags at your muscles as you try to flee from the oncoming horde. Still they gain ground, empty eyes seemingly hungry; hungry for you. Closer they come, closer until you can smell the stench of death upon them. You see now that they are dead, yet still they move. Closer now you can hear low moans escaping their cracked lips; the sound of death itself come for you. Just as their outstretched arms are close enough to grasp at your clothing, you awake with a start drenched in sweat. Your companions are all sound asleep, and none the wiser to your distress. You lay your head back down and sleep in peace until morning.
3. You dream terrible dreams of a hyena-headed woman tormenting you. Her three eyes penetrate you to your very core, seemingly stripping away your soul. This monstrous woman is pregnant, and deformed children that seem only half-human cling to her skirts, beckoning you to join them at their mother’s side. You shudder to think of what beasts fathered such abominations, then quickly abandon the thought. You feel drawn to these deformed children, as though you are just like them, one of them even, a sibling lost at birth but now being called home. As the monstrous children beckon, their mother smiles horrifically and begins to laugh. Her laughter still echoes in your mind as you start awake. Thankfully none of your companions seem bothered by such troubling dreams, they lie still in their sleep. You envy their peace of mind as you lay your head down once again and sleep until morning.
4. Same as #2
5. You dream during the night. A woman is before you, beautiful in every way. As she smiles at you, you feel safe and welcome. In an off-hand way you scratch at your abdomen, as though a rash is just now forming; all the while she smiles upon you. As you smile back, her belly begins to swell. Soon she is heavy with child and you see movement beneath her robes. The robes part and you see the hand of a child pressing from inside her flesh, then a foot. Suddenly the shapes on her belly change, and are no longer human. You see the shape of what looks like a claw, then what can only be a tail, and even the shape of a wing. Hearing laughter, you look up into her face, but she is no longer the beautiful woman she once was. She now has the head of a hyena, with a third eye in her forehead. As she stares at you the itching sensation on your abdomen grows. You look down in horror to see shapes beneath your skin now, moving about in a frantic manner. Clawing at your belly you open your mouth to scream, only to find yourself suddenly awake once more. Your companions all slumber, oblivious to your distress. You lay your head back down and do your best to try to rest, idly scratching your belly as you do so.
6. You sleep well throughout the night. Kindly ignore the rest of the text on this paper. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Morbi eget ipsum ac lorem consequat molestie ut sit amet tellus. Suspendisse ornare augue sit amet molestie viverra. Aenean id iaculis erat. In iaculis sapien quis tellus lobortis porttitor. Donec ultricies neque sed nibh commodo egestas. Aliquam erat volutpat. Proin bibendum vestibulum lacus a efficitur. Duis tempus nisl nulla, id fringilla lectus gravida ac. Sed at venenatis diam, vel accumsan augue. Ut egestas leo risus, vitae fermentum tellus sagittis ac. Phasellus vitae pretium sapien. Integer fringilla neque in arcu mollis pretium. Pellentesque habitant morbi tristique senectus et netus et malesuada fames ac turpis egestas. Maecenas ipsum tellus, euismod a nisi eget, imperdiet pulvinar quam. Suspendisse faucibus dapibus lacus vitae eleifend. Quisque eu nibh porta lectus ornare consectetur vitae et ante. Donec placerat faucibus ante, nec vestibulum est hendrerit ut. Quisque dolor nibh, semper id est ut, mattis accumsan libero. Vivamus tempus tortor vel dolor dapibus viverra. Nulla pulvinar, eros id bibendum tempor, massa turpis rhoncus nulla, ut auctor elit tortor ut urna. Nunc tortor metus, pulvinar sit amet faucibus quis, dapibus vel mauris. Phasellus sagittis elit ut eleifend fermentum. Donec convallis mattis mauris sed pellentesque. Etiam quis pharetra quam.
7. Same as #6
8. Same as #6