I'm working on building an alchemist as an NPC for the party to fight, and I got an idea: since most alchemist NPCs end up having numerous extracts that never get used in/before combat, why not have all of the extras be tainted infusions?
The issue is that one of the party members is a high-level alchemist.
My question is: can an alchemist's infusions (tainted or regular) be identified as such?
Generally it's not a good strategy because an alchemist would be better off having open extract slots so he could mix up useful extracts/infusions on the fly, as needed. If you have slots that you don't think you can effectively use, I'm not sure if you're playing the alchemist to its full potential.
Essentially you're throwing away power by not having those extracts available to the alchemist to use. Also, it uses up bomb slots. So you've severely gimped your alchemist in the meta-gaming hope that it messes up the party after he is defeated?
Why would any alchemist do this?
Is the NPC alchemist not planning to use any of his/her own extracts?
This is basically a suicide bomber poisoner. Does the character expects to be killed and have its extracts drunk by anyone else? What other motivation the NPC has to make all of his extracts useless to him?
The party has already steamrolled over two of his superiors. His chances against them are almost non-existent unless he has a large group to face them with, which he likely won't have.
Also, I'm obviously not making ALL of his extracts like this. He'll have buffs like barkskin, displacement, monstrous physique, and all of that, as well as a few emergency extracts like invisibility and gaseous form. But as a 20th level alchemist, there's no way he's going to be able to utilize every single one of them effectively without getting redundant effects or bonuses that aren't going to come into play. The tainted extracts would be a last ditch effort to hamper the party's progression by turning what they think is beneficial loot into a hindrance.
Of course, this is all moot if the alchemist is able to just instantly identify that they're tainted infusions.
And he's not just running away because...why? What sort of superiors does a 20th level alchemist even have? Why doesn't he have legions of Solar, Titan or Pit Fiend simulacrums? Clones?
He could have literally dozens of doppleganger simulacra located all over the place, near and far. I dunno, seems like a 20th level alchemist relying on tainted infusions is not taking advantage of an alchemists capabilities, and I could probably come up with a list of useful extracts that completely fill a 20th level alchemists slots, especially if he already has some information and pre-knowledge about the party that's coming after him.
To address the actual question, I think infusions can be identified by an alchemist as if they were potions (because they basically are), and since the taint makes it a different "potion" it'll be detected. Can't find anything specific to back that up, though.
Thank you, Fuzzy. I'll shelve the idea for a game where the party doesn't bring an alchemist along.
Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote: To address the actual question, I think infusions can be identified by an alchemist as if they were potions (because they basically are), and since the taint makes it a different "potion" it'll be detected. Can't find anything specific to back that up, though. I wasn't able to find any rules regarding identifying extracts, identifying infusions, or tainted infusions.
You could use the rules for cursed items.
Quote: Identifying Cursed Items: Cursed items are identified like any other magic item with one exception: unless the check made to identify the item exceeds the DC by 10 or more, the curse is not detected. If the check is not made by 10 or more, but still succeeds, all that is revealed is the magic item's original intent. If the item is known to be cursed, the nature of the curse can be determined using the standard DC to identify the item.
Use combine extracts to combine 8 tainted detonate infusions into 4 infusions (you could prepare it once and then use boro beads to save slots, but you would still expend 8 bombs). Get 2 pairs of Poisoner's Gloves, one for the Alchemist, one for their Mauler Tumor Familiar (either have the familiar take extra item slot, or chose a type that has hands). The Alchemist and his familiar can each deliver both gloves as a full round action. The targets of the touch attacks would receive no save for the bomb or detonate damage.
If all four gloves are used on a single target, they would take ((8*(10d6+Int mod))*1.5)+(80d8/2) damage, 600 on average not counting Int bonus to bomb damage, which should be enough to kill most players. Even Con heavy raging Barbarians with Determination armor may be knocked down. If the party is relatively closely grouped, you should have overlapping detonate splash damage as well even if you spread out the attacks.
Give the Alchemist high energy resistance or immunity for the type used in detonate as there will be significant splash damage. Alternatively, Spring-Heeled Reaping for your alchemist would allow them to move at twice their speed and deliver both of their touch attacks at the cost of 6 feats, this would keep them out of the splash damage zone(s). The familiar has improved evasion which should help, give it a belt of Dex and a ring of energy resistance if you think the Alchemist would be worried about it's safety.
Gallant Armor wrote: Use combine extracts to combine 8 tainted detonate infusions into 4 infusions (you could prepare it once and then use boro beads to save slots, but you would still expend 8 bombs). Get 2 pairs of Poisoner's Gloves, one for the Alchemist, one for their Mauler Tumor Familiar (either have the familiar take extra item slot, or chose a type that has hands). The Alchemist and his familiar can each deliver both gloves as a full round action. The targets of the touch attacks would receive no save for the bomb or detonate damage.
If all four gloves are used on a single target, they would take ((8*(10d6+Int mod))*1.5)+(80d8/2) damage, 600 on average not counting Int bonus to bomb damage, which should be enough to kill most players. Even Con heavy raging Barbarians with Determination armor may be knocked down. If the party is relatively closely grouped, you should have overlapping detonate splash damage as well even if you spread out the attacks.
Give the Alchemist high energy resistance or immunity for the type used in detonate as there will be significant splash damage. Alternatively, Spring-Heeled Reaping for your alchemist would allow them to move at twice their speed and deliver both of their touch attacks at the cost of 6 feats, this would keep them out of the splash damage zone(s). The familiar has improved evasion which should help, give it a belt of Dex and a ring of energy resistance if you think the Alchemist would be worried about it's safety.
O.O
That's malicious. I like it
It's not clear that the bomb damage would stack with Combine Extracts.
Also, the effect does not produce splash damage, so you wouldn't have to worry about energy resistance.
_Ozy_ wrote: It's not clear that the bomb damage would stack with Combine Extracts.
Also, the effect does not produce splash damage, so you wouldn't have to worry about energy resistance.
I'm inclined to say that it wouldn't, since you make both the combine extract and tainted infusion decisions when creating it.
You'd still have to worry about energy resistance if you're using an extract of detonate, unless you can manage to get out of range of the blast within a single round.
Diachronos wrote: _Ozy_ wrote: It's not clear that the bomb damage would stack with Combine Extracts.
Also, the effect does not produce splash damage, so you wouldn't have to worry about energy resistance.
I'm inclined to say that it wouldn't, since you make both the combine extract and tainted infusion decisions when creating it.
You'd still have to worry about energy resistance if you're using an extract of detonate, unless you can manage to get out of range of the blast within a single round. There is no rule I know of to prevent discoveries stacking on extracts like there is for some of the bomb discoveries. I think a reasonable interpretation might be to limit it to one bomb per combined extract as there are really only 4 extracts being made.
This would result in 360 + 4*int mod average damage. Anyone within 15 feet of all of the splash zones would take 180-360 damage depending on their reflex saves.
Flash Forward Extract + Pounce Through Beastmorph Archetype would be another way to keep them out of the blast zone
Gallant Armor wrote: Diachronos wrote: _Ozy_ wrote: It's not clear that the bomb damage would stack with Combine Extracts.
Also, the effect does not produce splash damage, so you wouldn't have to worry about energy resistance.
I'm inclined to say that it wouldn't, since you make both the combine extract and tainted infusion decisions when creating it.
You'd still have to worry about energy resistance if you're using an extract of detonate, unless you can manage to get out of range of the blast within a single round. There is no rule I know of to prevent discoveries stacking on extracts like there is for some of the bomb discoveries. I think a reasonable interpretation might be to limit it to one bomb per combined extract as there are really only 4 extracts being made. Yes, that is what I meant. A combined extract is one extract that contains two formula effects, not two extracts. So you just get one 'tainted' bomb explosion, not two.
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