Already had a NPC(s) in the works who once was an adventure and travelled a lot and as a step towards Lamashtu's title of "Mother of Monsters", went through pregnancy after pregnancy with a number of different evilly racial fathers (vampire, werewolf, drow, etc) and eventually moved her growing family to her home nation of Ustalav, but kept them out of the public's eyes. It's said Lamashtu is NOT a fan of "typical beauty" and values deformity and such.
Is faith in Lamashtu, frequent pregnancy & childbirth, and remotely monstrous offspring, albeit with common physical appearances for their races enough to justify such a character?
I'm curious what can be reasonably nitpicked out of all of what Lamashtu stands for (and/or is worshipped for) while still being faithful... in this case, settling for a large family of not-really-monsters but merely defined as monsters to the general public of the region and doing nothing to mutilate or twist the children into more grotesque or 'ugly'.
Oh ok, drawing the line just short of "children must exhibit deformities" is fine for a casual worshipper of Lamashtu?
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Remember - Lamashtu's the Mother of Monsters.
She's Grendel's Mother. She's Echidna.
She loves. Despite deformity or appearance. And she kills for her children.
You don't have to go around birthing monster children to be a Lamashtu worshipper. You just have to be someone who loves unconditionally.
And will kill to defend those you love.
Of course, you can also be a society-destroying, beauty hating, bomb-throwing anarchist.
She takes all kinds.
Okay, it's easier to absorb the info when you put it that way.
It's just not always that easy to cherry-pick ways to experience a god's way, for example a homocidal killer who worships Pharama but kills purely for the thrill (it could happen, but he/she would be misguided and proper Pharasmins would make it known, I believe) so I wanted to be sure if cherry-picking with Lamashtu would fit alright.
Any other depraved deities whose worshippers are encouraged to practice subtler aspects of the god's portfolios? Better not to waste the thread if the subject matter has more to delve into.
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He'd really be venerating Norgorber whether he knew it or not. Pharasma wouldn't accept the prayers of a homicidal maniac.
Certainly, he'd be venerating probably a fair number of deities and demon lords who relish murder, but he *could* think "I'm sending souls to her, and having fun at the same time." hence the confusion about where gods do and do not draw lines.
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Certainly, he'd be venerating probably a fair number of deities and demon lords who relish murder, but he *could* think "I'm sending souls to her, and having fun at the same time." hence the confusion about where gods do and do not draw lines.
well.... in that case, it's a quick hop-skip-jump from Pharasma to the Four Horsemen and their daemonic ilk...
Charon's the REAL god of death after all. Pharasma is just a lie people tell each other to feel some sort of comfort.
Right, just making sure religious folk are correct to believe Lamashtu is the goddess of childbirth, not ONLY the goddess of messy birth.
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It's just not always that easy to cherry-pick ways to experience a god's way, for example a homocidal killer who worships Pharama but kills purely for the thrill (it could happen, but he/she would be misguided and proper Pharasmins would make it known, I believe) so I wanted to be sure if cherry-picking with Lamashtu would fit alright.
A serial killer could certainly work within Pharasma's philosophy, as she is the goddess of fate, so someone determining if people should live or die by a coin flip, for example, would work very well. I think Anton Chigurh would be a fair shot at making a Pharasmin serial killer. Remember, Pharasma will give spells to NE followers.
Right, just making sure religious folk are correct to believe Lamashtu is the goddess of childbirth, not ONLY the goddess of messy birth.
Eh, not really.
Pharasma is mentioned here as the goddess of rebirth and her worshippers are specifically listed as pregnant women and midwives. I think Pharasma is more the goddess of birth, and Lamashtu is the goddess of birthing fraked up monsters.
Are we trying to story-spin a cover for an evil character or NPC to hide and have access to where she can do the most harm?
I just can't make the reach that Lamashtu is the patron of midwives, except possibly among some of the more monstrous of races. This isn't like Lawyers, a necessary evil.
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The important part about Lamashtu is that she believes that beauty and caring about appearance is weakness, and she wants her children to be strong. She is a harsh mother, and she often makes her children fight each other, so that only the srongest would survive. Followers of Lamashtu may operate orphanages, but children from them won't receive much traditional love, just encouragement to be the strongest and dominate.
Some people pray to Lamashtu to make sure that the prregnancy goes well and the child will be born strong and healthy, but this comes at a risk, as Lamashtu has her own views on what it means to be strong and healthy.
Charon, though called Horseman of Death in general, in fact personifies only death from old age. Norgorber as Father Skinsaw is the best deity for serial murderer. Demon lord Shax if the murders are particularily violent.
Regarding Norgorber, it's worth remembering that he has four separate cults, that even call him different names. In particular, thieves can worship him as Gray Master, while spies, politcicians and those who depend on secrecy in their lives can worship the Reaper of Reputation.
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Pharasma is the death into the circle of souls and normal ways. The Horsemen are the utter extinguishment of life and souls.Certainly, he'd be venerating probably a fair number of deities and demon lords who relish murder, but he *could* think "I'm sending souls to her, and having fun at the same time." hence the confusion about where gods do and do not draw lines.well.... in that case, it's a quick hop-skip-jump from Pharasma to the Four Horsemen and their daemonic ilk...
Charon's the REAL god of death after all. Pharasma is just a lie people tell each other to feel some sort of comfort.
Yes...
to the deluded fools, the circle of souls and "normality" is seen in the false reality of Pharasma's cult.
But in the end, true death is coming for us all. Charon is the Bringer of Extinction. The cycle breaks.
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Are we trying to story-spin a cover for an evil character or NPC to hide and have access to where she can do the most harm?
I just can't make the reach that Lamashtu is the patron of midwives, except possibly among some of the more monstrous of races. This isn't like Lawyers, a necessary evil.
You can look at her as a sort of ancient fertility goddess.
Maybe she was, once, in the distant past. But the Church of Aroden arrived, and stomped that out, slaughtered her worshippers in the more "cultured" lands, tore her temples down, and burned her priestesses.
Now, she's a shattered wreck of her old self, venerated only by the outcasts and the wretched, by creatures that lurk in the undergrowth and the darkness. A witch from distant lands, Echidna in the cavern nursing Ladon and Scylla and a hundred other misshapen beasts.
But now... Aroden is dead. And the old ways are returning. Old things thought long dead are stirring. What was forgotten rumbles now in dreams.
At least, that's how I see Golarion.
Are we trying to story-spin a cover for an evil character or NPC to hide and have access to where she can do the most harm?
I just can't make the reach that Lamashtu is the patron of midwives, except possibly among some of the more monstrous of races. This isn't like Lawyers, a necessary evil.
You can look at her as a sort of ancient fertility goddess.
Maybe she was, once, in the distant past. But the Church of Aroden arrived, and stomped that out, slaughtered her worshippers in the more "cultured" lands, tore her temples down, and burned her priestesses.
Now, she's a shattered wreck of her old self, venerated only by the outcasts and the wretched, by creatures that lurk in the undergrowth and the darkness. A witch from distant lands, Echidna in the cavern nursing Ladon and Scylla and a hundred other misshapen beasts.
But now... Aroden is dead. And the old ways are returning. Old things thought long dead are stirring. What was forgotten rumbles now in dreams.
At least, that's how I see Golarion.
You are free to imagine what you like, but this view is not supported by existing lore.
Lamashtu was a demonlord who killed a god and stole their deific power. Aroden and his religion had nothing really to do with Lamashtu. If anyone would have worked on eradicating worship of Lamashtu it would have been Desna, due to the god Lamashtu killed being Desna's deific mentor.
And if she is a shattered wreck of herself, it's because Pazazu (another demon lord) attacked her (for her of stealing deific power).
So you can choose to imagine what you like, but Lamashtu has an official background that does not at all fit with what you have stated.
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This thread makes me wonder what an orphanage of Lamashtu could be like, specifically pulling in children who are hybrid or monstrous or 'freaks' ranging from half-elves and half-orcs, to dhampirs, ganzi, tieflings, changelings, fetches and the various genie-kin races (oreads, ifrit, suli, undines and slyphs).
A grown up evil party of such half-breed races, all grown up together in a Lamashtan orphanage for unwanted 'freak' children, could be a funky adversary group, thinking of themselves as brothers and sisters despite being obviously of different races (and further drawing attention by referring to the gnoll cleric of Lamashtu who they consider their leader as 'Mother').
You know, masquerade cults are a thing. To avoid being noticed, and the whole torches and pitchforks things, the Lamashtu clergy can pretend to be another, fake, cult, something like Lamas, the safe haven, "Bring us your misfits, your broken...." The weakest unfortunates sometimes don't make it, but they at least have a chance. (OK, the weakest are prey to the strongest, but this is not the public line.)
You don't pretend to be an existing cult, that real god will have something unpleasant to say about such an insult.
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This thread makes me wonder what an orphanage of Lamashtu could be like, specifically pulling in children who are hybrid or monstrous or 'freaks' ranging from half-elves and half-orcs, to dhampirs, ganzi, tieflings, changelings, fetches and the various genie-kin races (oreads, ifrit, suli, undines and slyphs).
A grown up evil party of such half-breed races, all grown up together in a Lamashtan orphanage for unwanted 'freak' children, could be a funky adversary group, thinking of themselves as brothers and sisters despite being obviously of different races (and further drawing attention by referring to the gnoll cleric of Lamashtu who they consider their leader as 'Mother').
There is a Lamashtan orphanage in Kaer Maga, detailed in the book about the place too.
Sooo... Lamashtu *shouldn't* be interpreted like this?
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Are we trying to story-spin a cover for an evil character or NPC to hide and have access to where she can do the most harm?
I just can't make the reach that Lamashtu is the patron of midwives, except possibly among some of the more monstrous of races. This isn't like Lawyers, a necessary evil.
You can look at her as a sort of ancient fertility goddess.
Maybe she was, once, in the distant past. But the Church of Aroden arrived, and stomped that out, slaughtered her worshippers in the more "cultured" lands, tore her temples down, and burned her priestesses.
Now, she's a shattered wreck of her old self, venerated only by the outcasts and the wretched, by creatures that lurk in the undergrowth and the darkness. A witch from distant lands, Echidna in the cavern nursing Ladon and Scylla and a hundred other misshapen beasts.
But now... Aroden is dead. And the old ways are returning. Old things thought long dead are stirring. What was forgotten rumbles now in dreams.
At least, that's how I see Golarion.
You are free to imagine what you like, but this view is not supported by existing lore.
Lamashtu was a demonlord who killed a god and stole their deific power. Aroden and his religion had nothing really to do with Lamashtu. If anyone would have worked on eradicating worship of Lamashtu it would have been Desna, due to the god Lamashtu killed being Desna's deific mentor.
And if she is a shattered wreck of herself, it's because Pazazu (another demon lord) attacked her (for her of stealing deific power).
So you can choose to imagine what you like, but Lamashtu has an official background that does not at all fit with what you have stated.
yeah, i know. SADFACE.