How to not murder my PCs (The Skinsaw Murders)

[Adjoint]

My PCs investigated the Foxglove's Townhouse and immediately headed toward the Seven's Sawmill.

It was a middle of the day, the mill was operational, but the door were locked. Having no rogue at the moment (her player was missing for a session) they knocked on the door to the undermill. One of the workers inside opened the door and talked to them calmly and politely, but refused to let them in or give them any information about his boss. The PCs started to suspicious, but he rolled high on Bluff and they ended trusting him. They told him basically EVERYTHING: that they are adventurers investigating a case of serial murders and they were directed here by a clue found in the Foxglove's house. He offered to tell his boss about them later, and they accepted without suspecting anything. They even told him where they are staying in the city, so that they could get a reply later.

Later they send the witch's bird familiar to scout, and he was able to find the messenger ravens and talk to them, getting a little info (but they still don't know the location of the fowers the ravens fly to), and the familiar even saw Ironbriar when he came up to investigate the rukus made by the ravens. But by the end of the session, the PCs still don't have a plan what to do, and a good chance is that they decide to wait for a reply from the worker.

If they do that, it only makes sense that Ironbriar sends the cultists against them, and not just one or two, but I think that at least half of the group, to ensure success. As much as the PCs probably deserve it for their stupidity, I'd like to avoid killing 4/5 of the party in their sleep (one party member is from Magnimar originally and sleeps at his home, not with the rest of the party).

The PCs that would be ambushed are a witch (as the owner of the house, she sleeps in a separate room), a bard/swashbuckler, a samurai (won't be wearing armor in his sleep) and an unchained rogue. All 7th level, except for the bard/swashbuckler who missed some sessions before and is still 6th level. The rogue has a 5-rank skill unlock for Perception, so she gets reduced penalty from sleep, so she may be able to wake up before the cultist start killing everybody, but it's unlikely for others.

So it looks pretty grim for them, and as I said, I'd like to avoid killing them in such a way. Is there anything I can do to give them a fighting chance, without making the Skinsaw Cult utterly incompetent?

[Senaric]

Have the cult try to capture them instead. Adventurers are prime candidates for the Sihedron ritual, but you have to tattoo them first. Once caught and restrained, they could be left with only a couple of guards until Iron briar can get loose from his court duties. Just imagine their faces when they realise what their shiny new tattoos are for later on in the Adventure Path.

[Jhaeman]

Do the adventurers not take any precautions at the house they're staying in? Even commoners in Magnimar would lock their doors at night, and trained adventurers would usually keep a watch, set alarms (spells or noisy traps, etc.). But if not, I'd play it straight. Remember, even a coup de grace won't necessarily kill a PC (the war razors don't actually do that much damage) and the noise of one getting their throat slit could be enough to wake the others unless the cultists time the attacks perfectly, which isn't easy to do when creeping around a strange house in total darkness.

I wouldn't do the Sihedron ritual thing unless the PCs are known for being greedy, because otherwise their souls wouldn't go to the Runewell . . .

[Latrecis]

The pc's are slaughtered while they sleep - boy that sounds like fun!

Not.

By the way, this should have been spoiler tagged up the wazoo. And properly belongs in the GM reference thread for Book 2.

Spoiler:

Why do the pc's think they are safe at home? They are investigating a serial killer that is killing prominent residents of the city. And (I assume) they found faceless stalkers at the townhouse to foil any investigation into Foxglove. Aldern was paying blackmail money to someone at Seven's Sawmill. And they have a deed that shows that Vorel Foxglove (you know the guy whose attempt to become a lich went so horribly wrong) was going to cede the property to something called the Brothers of the Seven. If the players/pc's don't have major suspicions about the sawmill - is that because they're obtuse or because you haven't helped them see the danger? If players are clueless, the GM has accountability too.

Have you ever attacked them while resting before? Have you made it a habit to ask them about defenses/precautions while resting (even if, especially if, nothing was going to happen?) I agree, kicking the hornets nest and then returning to their "normal" lives seems careless, but who let them get to 7th level by being careless?

Fortunately, you have other options. First, Ironbriar isn't going to do anything without consulting Xanesha - she's the one really in charge. So that might provide some time delay. Second, my reading of the previous killings/kidnappings is that they were well planned to minimize the chance of discovery or failure. So a sudden assault on the pc's is not consistent with the cult's normal pattern. They will research their foes first. Third, the pc's separation works in their favor. The cult wants to take them all out, not some. If the pc's are separated, the cult needs to split its forces as well. The cult wants to prevent any suspicion of the sawmill so leaving survivors behind to point the finger is very bad.

A better answer would be for the cultists to send a message to the pc's. "We are alarmed by the fear gripping the city. While we would normally not interfere, we have information that might help your investigation. Please meet us at the sawmill at sundown. The Brotherhood of the Seven." And the cultists, with Ironbriar ambush them there. The sawmill is their territory, they know it well and are best positioned to hide evidence of any crimes committed there. Like killing nosy adventurers from Sandpoint. If you want to rattle their cages, have a squad of guards show up at their homes and start interrogating them about where they were last night, or another night where a murder took place. Let the pc's know they have become prime suspects in the killings.

[Adjoint]

I don't think I can put spoiler tags in the previous post now, but I'll use it starting now. As for the GM Reference thread, I thought that was for the clarifications of what was written in the Adventure Path itself not for dealing with individual problems of individual groups. But sure, If I ever have a similiar problem again, I'll use that thread.

Spoiler:

They found the faceless stalkers, the deed to the manor and the Foxglove's ledger, yes. It doesn't seem that they understood that Foxglove paying for "Iesha's trip" was because he was blackmailed. They didn't spend two seconds thinking about the fact that Vorel was connected with Brothers of Seven. They do certainly have the suspicions about the mill - as in they are sure it is connected to the murders - but not suspicious enough to think that everyone inside is the killer.

In the past there were two instances when something happened while they were resting. Once when they decided to rest in Thistletop after defeating Ripnugget, but they had watches at that time. The other time Aldern (already as a ghast) creeped on them to stalk the object of his obsession them while they were resting in the Rusty Dragon. He had no intention to fight them though, so by the time they all woke up and get ready, he was long gone. They always set up watches in the wild, but they stopped when they arrived to Magnimar, seemingly thinking that they are safe in the city.

There was also already a situation when they lost a couple of characters because they underestimated the danger, but most of them survived, so those players rolled new characters and we continued the game.

You make a good argument that the cult will want to kill all of them, so they may wait for a good opportunity.

Ironbriar sending message to Xanesha may play out very well for the PCs -- with their bird familiar they will have no problem tracking the raven.

I also like the idea of the cult luring the PCs to the mill instead of assaulting them at their home.

[Senaric]

Jhaeman wrote:

I wouldn't do the Sihedron ritual thing unless the PCs are known for being greedy, because otherwise their souls wouldn't go to the Runewell . . .

They're adventurers. It may not be their prime sin, but I betcha it's on the list.

[Urath DM]

Don't forget that the enemies can take their time to stalk the PCs.

Spoiler:

The adventure talks about "if the PCs spend a few days observing the mill", for example. In that case, the Skinsaw Cult can be observing them (with appropriate chances for the PCs to notice being tailed, etc.).

Another option... if the relations between the Skinsaw and the master Cult of Norgorber are strained, the Forever Man may move the Night Scales to intercede quietly... perhaps dropping the PCs a clue to Xanesha. If they are not quite so strained, perhaps the Night Scales are tasked with stalking the PCs while the Skinsaw pretends to be nothing but mill workers.

If you do drop hints and the PCs fail to take security more seriously, perhaps a Faceless Stalker is sent after the one who lives alone. That Stalker then lures the remaining PCs to an ambush away from the mill with "Hey! I saw a suspicious person leave the mill and head to [somewhere of your choice]."

Also, if you have Undead Unleashed, the ghost of Ordellia Whilwren is available in the district that bears her name.. to perhaps bail out the hapless party before it becomes a TPK. Of course, she may become as much of a problem in other ways.

I highly recommend the Magnimar: City of Monuments supplement for running this part of the AP, especially if one of the PCs is supposedly a resident/native of Magnimar.

[Sharaya]

In the original post, where would you like a spoiler tag added?

[Tinalles]

I'll second Latrecis' suggestion.

Spoiler:

This is a prime opportunity to capture the PCs and tattoo them. I'd send the cultists and have them take 10 on their Stealth checks. That means the PCs need to hit a DC 17 Perception check to notice them, but at a -10 due to being asleep (less for your rogue with the skill unlock). That's effectively a DC 27 check, which is pretty stiff for a level 7 party, but not impossible.

Have the cultists do nonlethal damage -- they can use saps for this, each dealing 2d6+1 nonlethal (counting their 1d6 sneak attack). I'd assign 2 cultists to each PC so they'll have a flanking buddy once the PCs wake up, because I assume they're not going to be taken down in 1 or 2 hits.

Also, exempt the guy who stays in his own house. If the cultists don't have some way to know where he lives, then they should assume he'll be in the house with his friends. That does a number of things: it emphasizes how unwise it is to split the party; it leaves that PC free to organize a rescue; and it gives you two free cultists to jump in if one of their comrades goes down.

Consider letting the witch's familiar escape to seek aid. It's a raven, right? It knows where the remaining party member lives, and as a raven it speaks common -- maybe not perfectly fluidly yet, but enough to pass the word that the others got captured by scary people in creepy masks. The familiar can also suggest bringing important things to the rescue, like the other PCs' gear -- especially the witch's material components pouch.

Make sure to leave some kind of clue that the mill is the place to go. Maybe one of the cultists had sawdust in the cuffs of his pants, and it got shaken loose during the struggle.

Let the PC who wasn't there organize a rescue, but have some allies in mind if the player struggles to come up with ideas. Perhaps the city guards, perhaps other NPCs they know.

Meanwhile, play for time. Describe to the captured PCs how they are bound, gagged, and taken to the mill in a wooden cart covered with innocuous materials like bags. There they are tattooed with the Sihedron rune by the light of flickering candles -- have Justice Ironbriar gloat over them for a bit.

They told the cultist everything about themselves, right? And then he told Ironbriar. Who acted immediately to put out the threat, but also sent a message to Xanesha because she's the boss lady. Well, after the tattooing, arrange for a messenger bird to arrive from Xanesha saying "Don't kill them yet, I want to interrogate these interlopers myself. I'll be free soon."

The players don't need to know the timeline on Xanesha's arrival -- it's just a device to ensure that they stay alive until the rescue party arrives. (Though if they're clever, and they think they have enough resources left, they might use that knowledge to ambush Xanesha at the mill rather than facing her atop her tower.)

If you take this route, it's going to be challenging to GM. Your captured PCs will want to to try to escape, and you should let them try, but make it super hard. Ideally, it would be great if they manage to get free just as the rescue party kicks down the door. There might still be deaths, but it's always better to go down fighting than tied up and gutted like a hog.