The party casts Rope Trick and then the 4 PC, 1 Animal Companion, 1 Familiar and 2 Cohorts climb in and go to sleep.
Middle of the night the super stealthy Greater Invisible Ninja climbs the rope to sneak in and kill them... and bounces because the Rope Trick only allows 8 people to enter and there are already 8 creatures in there.
Correct?
And for the truly perverse.
A man casts Rope Trick and tries to climb in, along with his 11 fleas, 2 internal parasites and extensive gastrointestinal microbiota. Coming to a considerable higher total than 8 creatures so can not enter?
Rope Trick -
When this spell is cast upon a piece of rope from 5 to 30 feet long, one end of the rope rises into the air until the whole rope hangs perpendicular to the ground, as if affixed at the upper end. The upper end is, in fact, fastened to an extra-dimensional space that is outside the usual multiverse of extra-dimensional spaces. Creatures in the extra-dimensional space are hidden, beyond the reach of spells (including divinations), unless those spells work across planes. The space holds as many as eight creatures (of any size). The rope cannot be removed or hidden. The rope can support up to 16,000 pounds. A weight greater than that can pull the rope free.
Spells cannot be cast across the extra-dimensional interface, nor can area effects cross it. Those in the extra-dimensional space can see out of it as if a 3-foot-by-5-foot window were centered on the rope. The window is invisible, and even creatures that can see the window can’t see through it. Anything inside the extra-dimensional space drops out when the spell ends. The rope can be climbed by only one person at a time. The rope trick spell enables climbers to reach a normal place if they do not climb all the way to the extra-dimensional space.
1. Yes, to the first question with the 8 creatures. It may not be perfectly safe, but the window only prevents spells and area effects. There is no real ruling on melee attacks or creatures with reach. For instance, if the rope trick is only 5 to 10 feet off the ground, a creature with reach may be able to reach down and pull a creature up (how else are you going to get a horse or a mule in there? They can't climb the rope.) Depending on how your GM rules, the assassin may be able to stab into the window (50% miss chance since he can't see through it, and no sneak attack or other precision damage) but since there's no real mention of the dimensions or spacing or what the interior looks like, the attack may just go at a random occupant. That's all conjecture however.
2. No, to the 2nd involving fleas, ticks, lice, and tapeworms. Those are considered more of an affliction or infestation. I think ruleswise, technically a swarm would count as 1 creature though it consists of hundreds or thousands, so technically you could have 8 swarms of spiders, bats, or rats all in there. It likely wouldn't be very pleasant for any of them. The alternative is to assume that the person climbing in is allowed entrance and all the fleas, ticks, parasites, etc. (all except for maybe 7 more, up to the spell's limit) are just peeled away and left hanging on the rope or dropping to the ground, thus granting the spell a (somewhat decent) de-lousing effect over and above its intended use... but I doubt you're going to get much agreement on that one.
1) That was how I was seeing Rope Trick initially which would allow someone to throw a bomb into the Rope Trick space.
But as some posters pointed out it doesn't talk about an open entrance physically at the top of the rope but rather a Window that people in the space can look out.
Entry to the space is simply by climbing up the rope when you reach the top you appear in the space, and leaving you appear climbing down the rope.
Getting horses and Mules into the space has always been pretty dubious IMHO. You could climb the rope carrying said Mule, or you could start the rope at the bottom of a bank and then you have the Horse at the top of the bank and you grab the horse as you climb the last few inches into the space.
Somewhat related question. The spell says that the upper end is fastened but nothing about the bottom being attached to anything. Is there anything preventing those within the space from pulling up the lower part of the rope to prevent anyone else from climbing up?
Pulling the rope up has been considered standard practice since 1st edition.
OldSkoolRPG wrote: Somewhat related question. The spell says that the upper end is fastened but nothing about the bottom being attached to anything. Is there anything preventing those within the space from pulling up the lower part of the rope to prevent anyone else from climbing up? The wording for this spell is, frankly, terrible. Beyond terrible. RAW is so ambiguous that it's impossible to answer questions like this.
The problem stems from Paizo's change to the spell from 3.5, "The rope cannot be hidden or removed." No one knows what this means. It's been an FAQ candidate for as long as the PFRPG forums have existed. It comes up every year or two, gets flagged as an FAQ candidate (again), and goes unaddressed until it comes up again. Lather, rinse, repeat.
An assassin trying to climb into the Rope Trick is actually one of the less dangerous things that can happen to a party resting with Rock Trick. The worst case scenario is that an enemy Wizard hits it with Dispel Magic. If the spell gets dispelled then everyone inside is immediately ejected, thrown prone, and suffers a surprise round of combat. Most characters don't have their armor equipped, daily abilities are expended, buff spells are expired, maybe some missing hit points that need to be healed... it's hard to imagine a more disadvantageous scenario for the party. Even an APL-1 encounter is a life-or-death struggle that threatens to TPK under these circumstances.
It's the big reason I hate the spell. The vast majority of the time it gives you a safe space to rest and makes it very difficult for enemies to threaten, which encourages players to over-rely on it. But the moment Dispel Magic is on the table it suddenly becomes a massive strategic liability that can amount to signing the party's death warrant. That's just not a fun ability for me the GM. If the antagonists don't have the counter-measure it's a free pass to the party, and if they do have the counter-measure then TPK is extremely likely unless the party took precautions... which they're unlikely to take because they've been conditioned into thinking Rope Trick is a free pass.
OldSkoolRPG wrote: Is there anything preventing those within the space from pulling up the lower part of the rope to prevent anyone else from climbing up? That may qualify as hiding or removing the rope, which is not allowed (although to be honest it's hopelessly vague as to what it means to "hide" the rope).
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My players are sufficiently paranoid that they stand watches even when in a Rope Trick.
I think 2 of them have Feather fall around so they would float to the ground and one of them is a Diviner Wizard so acts in the surprise round anyway.
So while a Dispel Magic would be cute it wouldn't be likely to be a TPK.
I have sat down to make a couple of house rules to cover the incredible vagueness of Rope Trick.
Entry in and out of the space must be by climbing the rope. There is no "open door" as such. So weapons and objects can't be thrown in and out.
If the Rope is pulled loose from the space then no one can exit or enter until the spell ends.
I did consider having this end the spell but given it's a rope that several monsters can get on and group pull then it starts to become to easy to dispel it by non-caster. Albeit some might consider that a good idea and I'm not sure I would disagree. So I may revisit that.
If a magical attempt is made to hide the rope - i.e. Invisible - then it's treated a Caster level check as if you were trying to Dispel or Counter spell the Rope Trick.
If successful the Rope Trick will fail and there will be an invisible rope on the ground.
Of course that fact that these run of the mill Rope Trick features are uncovered by the RAW is more than a little depressing. :-(
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